Abbey Yid said:
It infuriates me that this happened and the warnings were there for everyone to see yet someone had to die first before safety became the priority.
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It infuriates me that this happened and the warnings were there for everyone to see yet someone had to die first before safety became the priority.
Schoolboy'sOwnStuff said:
Me too. Had a tv in m'bedroom at the time,it was unbelievable how the cameras kept rolling. It was compelling and deeply moving,will never forget images of Grobelaar amongst others helping out. The decision to postpone didn't come soon,think that's probably why the cameras kept going,kept thinking ah its not so bad,it'll kick off a bit late that's all. How wrong was I. Simply horrendous.
Schoolboy'sOwnStuff said:
How many games had already taken place at Hillsborough that year without incident?
And what were deemed "adequate" safety requirements at the time?
Well, judging by what has been said by others here, it was not fit for purpose for years. Also, it's been proven today that they had a 'safe' capacity in those two blocks which they flouted regularly.
For example.
It's pretty simple to carry out health and safety inspections.
For example.
It's pretty simple to carry out health and safety inspections.
If you can understand that football supporters at that time were treated like cattle and generally assumed to be semi-criminal by the Police then you can go some way to understanding how the Hillsborough disaster happened.
It really is that simple.
It really is that simple.
Ain't that the truth.Big Les Wade said:
If I'm completely honest I hadn't realised how badly the families of the victims have been lied to and ignored. I feel a bit ashamed to have felt a bit flippant about the 'Justice' calls by them in recent years. I can only imagine what today's announcement must feel like to them. I really don't like to think about my Mum being told that I'd not come home from a football match aged 19 only to be told it was effectively my fault and my death was an accident.
This isn't about scousers or football allegiance but is about ordinary people and their families being failed by those with power. Anyone who thinks this sort of thing only goes on in other countries should be under no illusions.
I like to think we rise above the who we support and who we hate on occasions like this.
This isn't about scousers or football allegiance but is about ordinary people and their families being failed by those with power. Anyone who thinks this sort of thing only goes on in other countries should be under no illusions.
I like to think we rise above the who we support and who we hate on occasions like this.
AlMacca_ said:
i was at the game!.. in the seats above the terracing in the leppings lane end, we had a couple of pints in the nearest boozer to the ground opposite a car showroom & got to the ground before 2 (3pm ko) & it was already banging at our end.. got in eventually but from about kick off time you could see something was going on below us .. you could feel the discomfort because there was no singing just shouting & general abuse towards plod!!. you could see people climbing up the fence, the first few got truncheons over thier hands until plod finally realised the pens to the left of the stand where completly overrun & people where in real danger!!.
thankfully the gate where opened & what seemed to be a good few thousand spurs fans where led down the side of the pitch to the kop end!.. a gap from bottom to the the top of the stand about 10 yds wide was made to accomodate them with a thin line of plod separating the 2 sets of fans which broke on many occasions due to both sets of fans going at each other.
what i do remember is walking all the way back to the train station after the game because of the chaotic traffic..the laid on shuttle buses just didnt appear & took us at least an hour & a half to walk back constantly getting into small scale violence with mostly locals from sheffield utds firm at the time with no plod about whatsoever... we actually done very well & when we met there main lot backed them off all the way to the city center.
(in them days you where cockney bastardsanywhere north of luton & anyone could tell who was as you couldnt hide due to your clothes/fashion worn which differed vastly from london to the northern wastelands!)
got back to euston around 10 & went straight to white hart lane via the fish n chip shop & off liscense with everybody else to queue up for replay tickets which was at highbury...
nobody knew or had heard anything about any injuries to ours until we got in the queue early sunday morning from a bloke with a radio who had the bbc world news on.
the thing i really do remember mainly about the day was fucking clive thomas!!!.... kenny hibbert of wolves done a triple salko with a double toe loop in the last minute in our area & clive thomas in nop position to see it gave a pen.. they scored to make it 2-2
164 changes to police and coroner statements
Ambulances queing up in the streets that were not allowed in as there was a treatment cut off at 15.15 - despite this, there is evidence that had they allowed treatment to continue, up to 41 people could have lived. Their hearts were still beating, and they were left for dead.
They said fans rushed the turnstiles - Senior officers opened them.
Police ran criminal checks on the dead for their smear campaign.
The coroner also tested the dead, including kids, for alcohol (which was found to be normal levels) in order to blame the fans.
Fucking shocking.
I never really paid much attention to the Justice groups, and thought we all knew it was the police's fault. But fuck me, they deserve medals.
Ambulances queing up in the streets that were not allowed in as there was a treatment cut off at 15.15 - despite this, there is evidence that had they allowed treatment to continue, up to 41 people could have lived. Their hearts were still beating, and they were left for dead.
They said fans rushed the turnstiles - Senior officers opened them.
Police ran criminal checks on the dead for their smear campaign.
The coroner also tested the dead, including kids, for alcohol (which was found to be normal levels) in order to blame the fans.
Fucking shocking.
I never really paid much attention to the Justice groups, and thought we all knew it was the police's fault. But fuck me, they deserve medals.
Although their efforts were to be applaided, since it is right and correct that they seek the truth, the reality is that a pressure groups can do only that, put pressure on people. That fact is that it took some balls to be the person to authorise a new enquiry and then investigate the police. I can imagine that it was not easy dealing with the police with such a deep instance of corruption through all rank and file, and extending outward to the coroner, et al.
In the past 30-40 years we have seen institutional corruption in all the major police forces in the UK, including those in Manchester, South Wales, West Yorkshire and the Met in London. This cannot be allowed to continue. The government needs to start accepting that these instances are not one offs and that the closed ranks of many of these police forces has bred a very questionable internal culture. It is a systemic problem that must be addressed. I am not saying every police officer in the country is corrupt, but clearly there is a bigger problem than the odd localised incident here and there.
In the past 30-40 years we have seen institutional corruption in all the major police forces in the UK, including those in Manchester, South Wales, West Yorkshire and the Met in London. This cannot be allowed to continue. The government needs to start accepting that these instances are not one offs and that the closed ranks of many of these police forces has bred a very questionable internal culture. It is a systemic problem that must be addressed. I am not saying every police officer in the country is corrupt, but clearly there is a bigger problem than the odd localised incident here and there.
Crushing on the terraces and opening of the perimeter gate
2.1.6 In 1981 the Leppings Lane terrace, although accessed from various points including the central tunnel, was not divided into pens by lateral fences. It was an open terrace. As fans arrived onto the already packed steps there was crushing resulting in serious injuries including broken bones, cuts and bruises.[5] Thirty-eight people received treatment from St John Ambulance volunteers and some were taken to hospital.[6] The crushing was most severe when Tottenham Hotspur scored a goal three to four minutes into the game and fans entering pushed forward. One supporter described how 'people were passing out and having difficulty breathing, people were getting hysterical, shouting and screaming'.[7]
http://hillsborough.independent.gov.uk/report/main-section/part-2/chapter-1/page-2/
2.1.13 He stated that he had been on the perimeter track and had instructed that the perimeter fence gate be opened and spectators assisted in evacuating the terrace to prevent serious injury. Fans were then allowed to sit on the track against the perimeter fence wall. Mr McGee argued that the police action was 'completely unnecessary and made the ground look "untidy"'. He considered that it might prevent Hillsborough hosting future semi-finals. ACC Goslin insisted that due to crushing on the terraces there had been a 'real chance of fatalities' to which Mr McGee replied 'Bollocks - no one would have been killed!' Following this disagreement, the relationship between SYP and SWFC became strained.
2.1.6 In 1981 the Leppings Lane terrace, although accessed from various points including the central tunnel, was not divided into pens by lateral fences. It was an open terrace. As fans arrived onto the already packed steps there was crushing resulting in serious injuries including broken bones, cuts and bruises.[5] Thirty-eight people received treatment from St John Ambulance volunteers and some were taken to hospital.[6] The crushing was most severe when Tottenham Hotspur scored a goal three to four minutes into the game and fans entering pushed forward. One supporter described how 'people were passing out and having difficulty breathing, people were getting hysterical, shouting and screaming'.[7]
http://hillsborough.independent.gov.uk/report/main-section/part-2/chapter-1/page-2/
2.1.13 He stated that he had been on the perimeter track and had instructed that the perimeter fence gate be opened and spectators assisted in evacuating the terrace to prevent serious injury. Fans were then allowed to sit on the track against the perimeter fence wall. Mr McGee argued that the police action was 'completely unnecessary and made the ground look "untidy"'. He considered that it might prevent Hillsborough hosting future semi-finals. ACC Goslin insisted that due to crushing on the terraces there had been a 'real chance of fatalities' to which Mr McGee replied 'Bollocks - no one would have been killed!' Following this disagreement, the relationship between SYP and SWFC became strained.
Schoolboy'sOwnStuff said:
This. It's difficult to imagine if you didn't have the pleasure of frequenting football terracing before the end of the eighties. Some of them, more often lower league, we're little more than a building site... moulded broken concrete steps with lumps of metal (sometimes broken) sprouting out for support. A wall with a small channel at its base served as a toilet. Women's toilets were rare.
First off, i fucking hate the title of this thread, anyone with an once of history would know that liverpool fans are fucking salt of the earth. Proper knowledgeble football fans who i have the utmost respect for.
Back in the day i had tear ups on away days, that was just the way it was, it was give and fucking take. I was at Hillsborough in 81, the coach from my local was called off late on the friday night before the game, my brothers and a few mates decided to hitch to sheffield after the pubs shut.
12 hours it took to get there, but we were there in time for kick off, the old bill opened the gates just like they did eight years later that led to disaster. Lucky for us it didn't lead to deaths in the crowd, but 38 spurs fans suffered broken legs arms and ribs, before the opened the gates to releave the pressure in the leppings lane end.
Hillborough didn't have a valid safety certificate to stage a game of this magnitude, and semi-finals were moved for the following five years.
1987 leeds played in a semi at Hillsborough, quess what... crushing occured again. But sod it, it was only working class football fans, who gives a toss.
1989 Liverpool play forest, just like the previous games the club with the biggest following is allocated the smallest end, the game goes ahead despite the FA knowing full well that hillsborough dosn't hold a valid safety certificate, and the leppings lane end has a history of safety issues involving crushing.
96 men. women and children went to a football match and didn't come home, and the authorities covered the scandel up. Spurs were away to Wimbeldon on that day, i was in the seats at plough lane, when the news came through spurs fans were going fucking mental, all the talk was what happened in 81 we knew they fucked up yet again.
I knew the moment i got home that a cover up was in progress, the blame was being laid at liverpool fans, and it was all fucking lies. The biggest shame is the victims were being villified by all of football, yet im fucking proud of spurs fans who have constantly supported the case for the liverpool fans, why? because we knew the authorities were lying.
I haven't got a ticket for tomorrows game, but please sing "justice for the 96" its the very least compasonate football fans can do. And spurs fans are the best in the fucking world in my book.
Back in the day i had tear ups on away days, that was just the way it was, it was give and fucking take. I was at Hillsborough in 81, the coach from my local was called off late on the friday night before the game, my brothers and a few mates decided to hitch to sheffield after the pubs shut.
12 hours it took to get there, but we were there in time for kick off, the old bill opened the gates just like they did eight years later that led to disaster. Lucky for us it didn't lead to deaths in the crowd, but 38 spurs fans suffered broken legs arms and ribs, before the opened the gates to releave the pressure in the leppings lane end.
Hillborough didn't have a valid safety certificate to stage a game of this magnitude, and semi-finals were moved for the following five years.
1987 leeds played in a semi at Hillsborough, quess what... crushing occured again. But sod it, it was only working class football fans, who gives a toss.
1989 Liverpool play forest, just like the previous games the club with the biggest following is allocated the smallest end, the game goes ahead despite the FA knowing full well that hillsborough dosn't hold a valid safety certificate, and the leppings lane end has a history of safety issues involving crushing.
96 men. women and children went to a football match and didn't come home, and the authorities covered the scandel up. Spurs were away to Wimbeldon on that day, i was in the seats at plough lane, when the news came through spurs fans were going fucking mental, all the talk was what happened in 81 we knew they fucked up yet again.
I knew the moment i got home that a cover up was in progress, the blame was being laid at liverpool fans, and it was all fucking lies. The biggest shame is the victims were being villified by all of football, yet im fucking proud of spurs fans who have constantly supported the case for the liverpool fans, why? because we knew the authorities were lying.
I haven't got a ticket for tomorrows game, but please sing "justice for the 96" its the very least compasonate football fans can do. And spurs fans are the best in the fucking world in my book.
You're wrong.bobby smith said:
They're arseholes.
I've never seen scum spelt 'salt' before...