Dele

[TeamSpirit™]

For those who say keep him would you be happy to get rid if we could bring in a quality CB with the funds? I’m still hoping he can come good but if we could get rid of dele and bring in Skriniar then that’s to good a opportunity to turn down

He needs to leave, more for him than us, I'm convinced we have no real room for him. The funds from selling him and Winks, and possibly Sanchez must absolutely go towards an potentially elite, if not elite already CB.

Bring back Skipp to give us 2 genuine DMs and the squad is perfectly balanced on paper.

Good players get moved on all the time when a team moves in another direction. Its's not everyone we must hang on to.

 

[southport]

Problem is the pressure that's on his shoulders now. If he comes on as a sub then it's difficult to suitably impress over perhaps 20-30 minutes. He should definitely start a match in Europa with a view to playing the full 90 minutes. He'll know how he's doing then if he sees his number come up for subbing in the second half.
Personally I think Jose has made his mind up and it would take a miracle effort by Dele now to convince Mourinho to keep him. I reckon he'll be gone come January window.

I was thinking about this and am unsure. At the moment the Son/Kane partnership is clearly working and won’t be changing. If however Alli and Vinicius can click (and by clicking I mean both start the Europa league games and both assist each other each game) then this creates a viable partnership to change in games, so instead of one player coming on or off you would get both pairs to work together. A big ask, but there is a chance this could work

 

[StripiestPilot]

If Dele wants to stay he needs to fit into the 433 we are playing now. He is not technically good enough for us to revert to the 4231 where he plays behind the striker. That only ever worked with Dembele and Eriksen doing the fancy stuff.

We have gone from playing Dele as a 10 in a 4231 to playing Kane as a false 9 in a 433 and the team is vastly better in every way. I think the only way Dele stays is if he returns to the original position he started in as a box to box central midfielder, but it will be tough for him to displace Ndombele or Lo Celso.

I'm not sure he's capable of doing that though, his skills have stagnated after years of being indulged in that free role. He hasn't had to really work on his game for a long time. At this moment he is not even able to show more than Lamela and get a start on Thursday nights.

 

[spursmalc]

It is October and a decision will not be made until nearer the date. Posters are making valid points that he no longer fits the system and better players have been bought that have replaced him. It is not all his fault and it will be very difficult for him to break back into the first 11.
The problem being if he is not playing his profile and value drop through the floor. It will need a club to believe Dele is not at fault and can still do it but there will not be a high fee and will Levy accept that? Many examples have been given of Mourinho offloading players that become stars and someone will have to believe Dele is in that category or he will end up staying and not playing.
The good point is that there are no stories of him being difficult over the situation he finds himself in.
Yes I would start him Thursday but I really cannot see him back in the PL squad.

 

[ChiversRegal]

If Poch takes the Zenit job he may come calling as i'm sure he's fully aware of Dele's situation.

 

[AcrossThePond]

I argued that we shouldn't sell Ndombele back when most wanted rid. Same for Dele.

Reading Jose's comments, my guess is he starts tomorrow. We have a ton of fixtures to play, and we expect to go far in the cups. We need the depth.

I say keep, with the only caveat being a situation where we're selling him because we need the money to sign a top CB. Must be an automatic first XI CB though. We have plenty of "average" players there now.

Otherwise keep him and trust Jose to pull the right strings.

 

[1882]

I thought his wonder goal against the Chavs was better
Absolutely sublime
If only he’d trained on

If forgotten about that one....
Yes... buys him another few months!!

I really want the old Dele back...
But (selfishly) only 'cos my;
"Dele - Kane -Son.... Dele - Kane -Son....
Dele - Kane -Son, is what you need....
if you wanna be the best,
Uh huh, better than the rest.... oh yeah,
Dele - Kane -Son's what you need...."
song is dependant on all three firing on all cylinders!!!

 

[Mr. Voldemort]

I argued that we shouldn't sell Ndombele back when most wanted rid. Same for Dele.

Reading Jose's comments, my guess is he starts tomorrow. We have a ton of fixtures to play, and we expect to go far in the cups. We need the depth.

I say keep, with the only caveat being a situation where we're selling him because we need the money to sign a top CB. Must be an automatic first XI CB though. We have plenty of "average" players there now.

Otherwise keep him and trust Jose to pull the right strings.

If Dele starts the game tomorrow he needs the full 90 mins to state his case regarding attitude and commitment. Let's see if he's still trying with 10 minutes left to play.
He gets subbed off within the hour mark then Jose ain't happy with him.

 

[spursmalc]

If Dele starts the game tomorrow he needs the full 90 mins to state his case regarding attitude and commitment. Let's see if he's still trying with 10 minutes left to play.
He gets subbed off within the hour mark then Jose ain't happy with him.

That is a little unfair as he has had so little football he is bound to be flagging at the 80 min mark. By all means if the score is ok, keep him on to get his fitness levels up but do not expect too much. The alternative is Dele paces himself earlier which will not get him in the team the following week.

 

[Shotgunofmichalebrow]

To add these things to your game you need to have training and play matches in roles that demand these things out of you... I highly doubt it's happened in 5 years., under either coaching staff.

This whole "it comes from within" is very overstated, and absolves the coaching staff of their responsibility, which is to develop players within their system. It only comes into play in extreme cases like Bentley or Adebayor. Otherwise the players are putting in the effort, some are just better/ more suited to the philosophy, and right now with Dele he's the odd man out.

This is more a case of Mourinho/Sacramento etc. taking a look at the overall profile of the squad and realising that N'Dombele, a far more talented player suits the need of the team much more and Dele has no real role in a 4-3-3, especially now Kane in playing false 9. Instead of acknowledging this, some are harping on about his attitude. AFAIC, It's a cop out and lacks proper analysis of what's happening here.

Exactly said this a while ago. there is a perverse obsession with "attitude ". This is simplistic and reductive Dele bigger problem is far more profound but lacks the Hollyoaks BS that some seem to love on here( saw it with N'dombele) he is a playet in search of a system. That's why he is stuffed because Jose plan A has zero use for him. Get him out on loan. Scoring and creating, the we can honestly assess if we can use what he offers.

 

[Mr. Voldemort]

That is a little unfair as he has had so little football he is bound to be flagging at the 80 min mark. By all means if the score is ok, keep him on to get his fitness levels up but do not expect too much. The alternative is Dele paces himself earlier which will not get him in the team the following week.

If he 'switches off' and appears disinterested rather than being genuinely knackered after putting in a real shift over the first 70-80 mins then it's time to say goodbye. You can be flagging but still trying. Nobody more than Dele should know how important a solid and commited performance is when next selected.

 

[TeamSpirit™]

Exactly said this a while ago. there is a perverse obsession with "attitude ". This is simplistic and reductive Dele bigger problem is far more profound but lacks the Hollyoaks BS that some seem to love on here( saw it with N'dombele) he is a playet in search of a system. That's why he is stuffed because Jose plan A has zero use for him. Get him out on loan. Scoring and creating, the we can honestly assess if we can use what he offers.

We know why it's given as a reason for when the likes of N'Dombele or Dele struggle, but I'm not opening that can of worms again.

Its just as stupid as pretending Winks is simply shit and average (he isn't). The profile of the other players and the preferred formation simply doesn't suit him. Play winks in a 2 or 3 next to a Physical monster of a DM (think Thomas Partey or Wilfried Ndidi) and he'd do his discount Marco Verratti act just fine.

 

[Distaste for scouse]

Still think he will play an important role before the end of this season, and if we are destined for big things.
Then Dele deserves to be a part of that for his role in the last few seasons.

 

[Deckard]

If he 'switches off' and appears disinterested rather than being genuinely knackered after putting in a real shift over the first 70-80 mins then it's time to say goodbye. You can be flagging but still trying. Nobody more than Dele should know how important a solid and commited performance is when next selected.

I think that in the EL last week it looked more than ok and committed enough to me. Let's see how the situation evolves. The good thingis that we got a lot of games before next window opens

 

[Mr. Voldemort]

Still think he will play an important role before the end of this season, and if we are destined for big things.
Then Dele deserves to be a part of that for his role in the last few seasons.

Football just doesn't work like that though my friend. Players cannot produce some sort of loyalty card and demand to play because of credits earned in previous seasons. That's exactly Dele's problem, he's trying to live off his past reputation and it won't wash with Jose.
Everyone in that team is fighting for their place because of the squad depth that now exists, with the exception of perhaps Kane and Son who are quite simply on another planet regarding effort, commitment and performances.
These players are paid exceptionally well and are expected to perform consistently and reliably. No player 'deserves' anything in the future based on how they performed a couple of years ago (and it has now been a couple of years for Dele since his golden era).

 

[VonnegutBusy]

We know why it's given as a reason for when the likes of N'Dombele or Dele struggle, but I'm not opening that can of worms again.

Its just as stupid as pretending Winks is simply shit and average (he isn't). The profile of the other players and the preferred formation simply doesn't suit him. Play winks in a 2 or 3 next to a Physical monster of a DM (think Thomas Partey or Wilfried Ndidi) and he'd do his discount Marco Verratti act just fine.

Let me guess - because they are (half) black?

Ndombele's issue was clearly some combination of fitness/attitude and the two are linked regardless. Whatever the weighting of those two were, the simple fact was that he could not carry out Mourinho's instructions for 45 mins, let alone 90. Anyone can see he is probably our most gifted player. Now we see he is getting around the pitch way more and is able to sustain this for 90 mins - with the help of a new position - and surprise surprise he's getting plenty of game time.

But generally a player's demeanour will always give off certain vibes - see Berbatov for an example of someone who looked like he gave zero fucks. I think there was some of this in Ndombele's performances.

As for Dele, he's just been replaced by superior players and is there's not much you can do about that. I've never really got the impression he isn't trying but there was that EL game where we could all hear Jose barking at him so he obviously wasn't following instructions to a tee.
I think players always get criticised for their off the field commitments if they aren't delivering on it and Dele hasn't for a while now. Fans generally want players to be quiet and go about their business until they return to a decent performance level. Dele seemed to become Mr Fortnite and Boohoo man just as performances dipped and people get sick of the sight of them.

People use the "not trying" thing not because of colour but because they are viewing the game simplistically. They don't understand how the team has changed since Dele's heyday and the simplest though process is: if he worked really hard he'd be good again.

 

[TeamSpirit™]

Let me guess - because they are (half) black?

Ndombele's issue was clearly some combination of fitness/attitude and the two are linked regardless. Whatever the weighting of those two were, the simple fact was that he could not carry out Mourinho's instructions for 45 mins, let alone 90. Anyone can see he is probably our most gifted player. Now we see he is getting around the pitch way more and is able to sustain this for 90 mins - with the help of a new position - and surprise surprise he's getting plenty of game time.

But generally a player's demeanour will always give off certain vibes - see Berbatov for an example of someone who looked like he gave zero fucks. I think there was some of this in Ndombele's performances.

As for Dele, he's just been replaced by superior players and is there's not much you can do about that. I've never really got the impression he isn't trying but there was that EL game where we could all hear Jose barking at him so he obviously wasn't following instructions to a tee.
I think players always get criticised for their off the field commitments if they aren't delivering on it and Dele hasn't for a while now. Fans generally want players to be quiet and go about their business until they return to a decent performance level. Dele seemed to become Mr Fortnite and Boohoo man just as performances dipped and people get sick of the sight of them.

People use the "not trying" thing not because of colour but because they are viewing the game simplistically. They don't understand how the team has changed since Dele's heyday and the simplest though process is: if he worked really hard he'd be good again.

That's your interpretation.

Do you think N'Dombele has changed fundamentally as a human being in 3 months?

Some personality transplant?

Or the more logical thing is that he struggled with a combination of settling in to a new country, adjusting to the increased physical demands of the Prem and a lingering injury that was initially misdiagnosed.

He's adapting, he's happier.

On Dele like I've said, we've moved beyond needing him, and I've explained at length why I believe this It doesn't mean he's become rubbish or he's suddenly stopped loving football.

Also people need to accept that players will have other interests and will be used to market things. Son does a tonne of stuff for the Korean market. David Ginola was hugely marketable when he was winning POTY for us. In fact the better this club does,, the more high profile it's players will become and the more marketing opportunities they will have, That's the nature of the business.

 

[Distaste for scouse]

Football just doesn't work like that though my friend. Players cannot produce some sort of loyalty card and demand to play because of credits earned in previous seasons. That's exactly Dele's problem, he's trying to live off his past reputation and it won't wash with Jose.
Everyone in that team is fighting for their place because of the squad depth that now exists, with the exception of perhaps Kane and Son who are quite simply on another planet regarding effort, commitment and performances.
These players are paid exceptionally well and are expected to perform consistently and reliably. No player 'deserves' anything in the future based on how they performed a couple of years ago (and it has now been a couple of years for Dele since his golden era).

There was another part to my post where I said I still felt like he would play an important role before the end of the season, I didn't just say he should be rewarded purely out of loyalty.

I thought he was decent when he came on against LASK.

I think the club would have sold him last window if they didn't feel he had something to offer, Jose is trying to get some hunger back into his game.

I do agree that no player should expect anything purely out of what they've done in the past but that wasn't quite what I was saying.

 

[starmagsi]

I've not read through the thread, but have just watched todays training video on Youtube and for the third time in a row I can't help but compare the way Dele looks in training to the way Lamela does. Everything Coco does is a little exaggerated, knees high, full twists etc etc. Whether or not that makes a substantial difference to how effectively he trains is not a question for me, but Dele needs to realise that it will have an effect on how he is perceived.

 

[BernardMatthews]

I want him to stay. To have a fit and hungry Dele as a squad player gives us options.

Question will be if he wants to do that. Or if he would rather play league matches than EL matches.

He’s not really suited to our formation and even last season José had him playing as a CF sometimes, choosing him to play there rather than in midfield.

Would love to see him scoring big goals for us again anyway.