Director of Football

[Elias]

I've no idea from the articles published and some of the initial claims - eg Lange signed Lenglet for Villa which is untrue, as it was actually Monchi - whether Lange is exceptional, good or poor at his core role. From the club statement this role appears to be overseeing our recruitment & scouting at all ages. Obviously, I hope Lange turns out to be a fantastic appointment.

But.... Much of the discussion in this thread has been about how a Director of Football, in charge of appointing coaches as well as recruitment, is the model that provides stability and continuity as head coaches come & go. We don't seem to have gone down this road.

I have no sense that Big Ange will be reporting to the Technical Director. I assume he reports to Munn (a non-football guy) & Levy.

My reading of the new setup is that Big Ange will continue to identify the type of skillset he wants us to target for what he identifies as positions of need for the first team. Lange will presumably use this blueprint in terms of recruitment for the younger age groups as well.

There are rumours that Ange veto-ed the signing of Lenglet over the summer, as he did not fit the skillset required for a LCB in his system. Clearly the player we did sign, Micky VDV, is a much better fit, and a much better player.

If the new structure continues to be guided by Ange's philosophy, and he has a veto over player signings at first team level, that works for me.

----------------------------

“We are delighted to announce that Johan Lange has been appointed Technical Director with effect from 1 November, 2023,” a club statement said. “Lange will have responsibility for recruitment, analytics and talent identification across our senior and academy teams.”

Tottenham appoint Aston Villa’s Johan Lange as their new technical director

 

[Micky Bubbles]

I think step 2 is surely step 1. Munn does not identify targets, he is overseeing the football departments. Lange and the scouting department officially do that job. Lets say Ange picks players from Paratici's list rather than Lange and the scouting team, would that not be a big problem?

No

 

[Malibu]

View: https://x.com/dan_kp/status/1711716503194644854?s=46&t=61-q4Ubtc8Mci3P7chxGTA

 

[Airfixx]

View: https://x.com/dan_kp/status/1711716503194644854?s=46&t=61-q4Ubtc8Mci3P7chxGTA

So....

Levy
Munn
Fab
Lange
[chief scout]
Computers
Scouts

Panic over, MVP

You have your clarity and it's a straight-forward, linear power structure.

 

[Paul Gascoigne]

Yeah, sort of my point.
Ange decides the type of players he wants rather than specific individuals

No I think he chooses specific players and won't compromise. Which is why we didn't sign another centre back yet.

 

[Spursidol]

I've no idea from the articles published and some of the initial claims - eg Lange signed Lenglet for Villa which is untrue, as it was actually Monchi - whether Lange is exceptional, good or poor at his core role. From the club statement this role appears to be overseeing our recruitment & scouting at all ages. Obviously, I hope Lange turns out to be a fantastic appointment.

But.... Much of the discussion in this thread has been about how a Director of Football, in charge of appointing coaches as well as recruitment, is the model that provides stability and continuity as head coaches come & go. We don't seem to have gone down this road.

I have no sense that Big Ange will be reporting to the Technical Director. I assume he reports to Munn (a non-football guy) & Levy.

My reading of the new setup is that Big Ange will continue to identify the type of skillset he wants us to target for what he identifies as positions of need for the first team. Lange will presumably use this blueprint in terms of recruitment for the younger age groups as well.

There are rumours that Ange veto-ed the signing of Lenglet over the summer, as he did not fit the skillset required for a LCB in his system. Clearly the player we did sign, Micky VDV, is a much better fit, and a much better player.

If the new structure continues to be guided by Ange's philosophy, and he has a veto over player signings at first team level, that works for me.

----------------------------

“We are delighted to announce that Johan Lange has been appointed Technical Director with effect from 1 November, 2023,” a club statement said. “Lange will have responsibility for recruitment, analytics and talent identification across our senior and academy teams.”

Tottenham appoint Aston Villa’s Johan Lange as their new technical director

“Lange will have responsibility for recruitment, analytics and talent identification across our senior and academy teams.”

That's a pretty clear statement as to his responsibilities.

From the comments coming out of Villa Lange was pretty well regarded there on the data analytics side which is good.

I'd imagine that Ange will give a short list of player types he wants with particular characteristics/skillsets (eg LCB, good passing, good speed, decent defender etc), maybe with a couple of players he thinks fits his criteria and Lange will come up with a list of maybe 6-10 players who might fit each playing position, and Lange will then try to put them into an order, possibly with some sort of price range.

Lange's also going to need to know roughly what maximum budget he can spend which may also have a bearing on how many players can be obtained in that window without quality being affected. So it might be the budget can only bring in 4 players of the standard of Maddison, Vicario, Van de Ven and Johnson so if Ange wants more players that's when the likes of Lenglet might appear on a list - he's relatively cheap and ticks some boxes such as decent passing. But I suspect Ange would simply say no to Lenglet and if the budget isn't there ask for a youngster who fits the job description but need development.

So the quality of recruitment will stand or fall on whether Lange can identify and recruit the player types Ange wants - its a tough act to follow Paratici though - and its then down to Ange to bed the players in.

What's not clear is who is responsible for loaning out good youngsters and creating a pathway to the first team (and to be fair that wasn't clear under Paratici either).

A few other areas where its not clear who's responsibility it is and whether Munn has the experience (bearing in mind he's been at smaller clubs in less well developed leagues, albeit under the Man City umbrella) to oversee those areas. But providing the system seems to work fans probably don't need to know the details.

 

[Elias]

“Lange will have responsibility for recruitment, analytics and talent identification across our senior and academy teams.”

That's a pretty clear statement as to his responsibilities.

From the comments coming out of Villa Lange was pretty well regarded there on the data analytics side which is good.

I'd imagine that Ange will give a short list of player types he wants with particular characteristics/skillsets (eg LCB, good passing, good speed, decent defender etc), maybe with a couple of players he thinks fits his criteria and Lange will come up with a list of maybe 6-10 players who might fit each playing position, and Lange will then try to put them into an order, possibly with some sort of price range.

Lange's also going to need to know roughly what maximum budget he can spend which may also have a bearing on how many players can be obtained in that window without quality being affected. So it might be the budget can only bring in 4 players of the standard of Maddison, Vicario, Van de Ven and Johnson so if Ange wants more players that's when the likes of Lenglet might appear on a list - he's relatively cheap and ticks some boxes such as decent passing. But I suspect Ange would simply say no to Lenglet and if the budget isn't there ask for a youngster who fits the job description but need development.

So the quality of recruitment will stand or fall on whether Lange can identify and recruit the player types Ange wants - its a tough act to follow Paratici though - and its then down to Ange to bed the players in.

What's not clear is who is responsible for loaning out good youngsters and creating a pathway to the first team (and to be fair that wasn't clear under Paratici either).

A few other areas where its not clear who's responsibility it is and whether Munn has the experience (bearing in mind he's been at smaller clubs in less well developed leagues, albeit under the Man City umbrella) to oversee those areas. But providing the system seems to work fans probably don't need to know the details.

Presumably our Academy Director, Simon Davies, must be making recommendations with regard to which of our youngsters need a loan to aid their development and the league level which might be appropriate. But yes, it's unclear whose job it is to then secure such loans.

I note Wiki has a "Head of Player Development" role in our staff structure, and this is shown as Vacant.

Tottenham Hotspur F.C. - Wikipedia

 

[Spursidol]

Presumably our Academy Director, Simon Davies, must be making recommendations with regard to which of our youngsters need a loan to aid their development and the league level which might be appropriate. But yes, it's unclear whose job it is to then secure such loans.

I note Wiki has a "Head of Player Development" role in our staff structure, and this is shown as Vacant.

Tottenham Hotspur F.C. - Wikipedia

You could be correct. But atm, only Parrott, Scarlett and Devine are out on loan whilst our u21's are probably the strongest I've seen in a decade.

My general rule of thumb is that youngsters get reasonable development in their first year of playing u21's against other u21 sides, but relatively little out of a 2nd year in u21's and might even regress in a 3rd year of playing u21's. Its rare at Spurs but can happen that a youngster trains with the first team, gets on the first team bench and plays meaningful minutes - but atm no signs of a player getting meaningful minutes in first team, so that development avenue appears to be open.

There's a few who have been in u21's for more than 12 months - the standout being 22 year old Lyons-Foster - and I had hoped more would already be on loan this season. So if in January there's no or very few loans the choice seems to be its either someone not carrying out the role very well or that Wiki is wrong and nobody is doing that role and nobody is responsible !

 

[MVP]

So....

Levy
Munn
Fab
Lange
[chief scout]
Computers
Scouts

Panic over MVP

You have your clarity and it's a straigh-forward, linear power structure.

No you just consolidated my point, Paratici is not officially employed, yet with in the structure you set out, he is more powerful than Lange.

 

[spursmalc]

The Admin staff (if that is the correct word) seems to be getting bigger with no doubt high wages. Not sure how the structure and cost compares to the other top clubs? However the main thing is to keep Levy away from getting involved with the detail of recruitment and sales.

 

[MVP]

The Admin staff (if that is the correct word) seems to be getting bigger with no doubt high wages. Not sure how the structure and cost compares to the other top clubs? However the main thing is to keep Levy away from getting involved with the detail of recruitment and sales.

That definitely isn't going to happen.

 

[stevee]

No I think he chooses specific players and won't compromise. Which is why we didn't sign another centre back yet.

I think he refused those that were presented to him on a list, Lenglet for example.

Either way it doesn't really matter if he has the final say on who we sign.

 

[spursmalc]

That definitely isn't going to happen.

Well whilst Paratici was employed the players we targeted got signed and done early in summer transfer window. This last transfer window Levy was clearly involved in Kane's transfer and his replacement came in late as per prior to Paratici. There is no point Levy employing these people and doing the work himself. You could call it a waste of money and that goes against everything Levy stands for.
The evidence is that the transfers work better when Levy is not directly involved in the negotiations although clearly nothing happens without his knowledge and agreement.

 

[stevee]

It does matter, Lange is employed by us, Paratici is not. It matters if Lange throws his toys out of his pram. Who would be happy with a sacked employees decisions being considered over their own?

Whose to say that he's unhappy ?

He's joined us knowing full well the set up, including Paratici role.

Again, mountains out of molehills.

 

[MVP]

Whose to say that he's unhappy ?

He's joined us knowing full well the set up, including Paratici role.

Again, mountains out of molehills.

It's a hypothetical question, he hasn't even started the job.

How do you know that he knows Paratici role within the set up? There is still no official word from the club that Paratici has a role.

 

[Spursidol]

It's a hypothetical question, he hasn't even started the job.

How do you know that he knows Paratici role within the set up? There is still no official word from the club that Paratici has a role.

I can't believe anyone going for a job interview knowing the job he's going for is headed by a consultant isn't going to ask whether the consultant is staying on ?

If he hasn't asked then he doesn't have the brainpower to do a senior job.

 

[MVP]

I can't believe anyone going for a job interview knowing the job he's going for is headed by a consultant isn't going to ask whether the consultant is staying on ?

If he hasn't asked then he doesn't have the brainpower to do a senior job.

Why would he ask when Paratici isn't officially employed by the club as a consultant? What we have are reports from twitter and elsewhere which the club typically don't comment on. We are believing the reports, we're discussing it but it doesn't mean Lange believes it or takes notice of it.

 

[Shadydan]

lol this guy has you all on strings

 

[Spursidol]

Why would he ask when Paratici isn't officially employed by the club as a consultant? What we have are reports from twitter and elsewhere which the club typically don't comment on. We are believing the reports, we're discussing it but it doesn't mean Lange believes it or takes notice of it.

EVERYONE IN THE FOOTBALL WORLD KNEW PARATICI WAS CONSULTING FOR SPURS.

Football Authorities directly responded to Spurs to clarify what items Paratici could deal with and what he couldn't.

So why wouldn't Lange know ? Lange works in football too remember !

 

[stevee]

It's a hypothetical question, he hasn't even started the job.

How do you know that he knows Paratici role within the set up? There is still no official word from the club that Paratici has a role.

Because he'd be told exactly what his role is and the role of others when offered the job.
If he wasn't told he can walk out with full pay for being lied too in the process.
If he was told then he's obviously happy with the set up.

Again, no biggie and mountains out of molehills.