Seems Konsa is about to start over Trippier tomorrow as the latter isn't 100%. Another negative move. Gomez has played pretty well at left-back for Liverpool last season on the odd occasion he played there and at least gets forward. Konsa won't cross the halfway line.
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The connection to brexit is this delusion or uncertainty about Englands place in the world. I don’t know if we need to make political points in a football piece but the connection isn’t a bad one.
The stereotype of an England fan from abroad is basically how deuterz was on here before the tournament. Overhyping the England team, talking about how great the players are, saying it’s coming home.
The Spanish journalist put it PERFECTLY.
« But yet again England have proven to be a collection of football stickers, star players, with no footballing empathy among each other. »
Yet again.
To be fair, we do have great players. Just as France, Germany, Portugal and Spain etc do. Living in France, I know that a lot of the French people I've spoke to had England down as one of the favourites, and still do. So not just English media or England fans. We do generally hype young players too much, too soon. But it's not a crime.
But considering Kane scored an incredible amount of goals for a Bayern team that struggled at times under Tuchel. Palmer was Chelsea's best player by a distance. Foden was City's best player. Bellingham was outstanding for Real Madrid, despite him running out of energy. I don't think anyone can accuse England fans for expecting a lot from them this tournament even under a wolly like Southgate.
Deuterz stood out like a sore thumb and evry other Eng fan rightly ridiculed his deluded view
I could see the pending shit sandwich a mile off - half this side wouldn’t get into Spurs’ best 11
Im not in England so I can’t really say but it definitely felt like the English media and fans were hyping up their team more than say, the French, Spanish, Germans or Portuguese were.
When I think of the English I think of a very developed sense of humour, an excellent sense of irony (like Europeans in general) and pragmatism. But before a major tournament, most of those qualities go out the window and there’s this insane rush of unbridled optimism where every reason England can win is dialled up to 10 and every reason they might not is dialled down to 1.
A more reasonable take, particularly from the media, would be to acknowledge the significant weaknesses in the squad and the team . Football is not 11 panini stickers battling it out like Pokémon. Englands issues were predictable but completely invisible pre tournament.
It’s a strange phenomenon from the outside and a bit like American bombastic naivety, leaves a large space for shadenfreude when it doesn’t work out.
For what it’s worth, I make you favourites for the final and some of the reaction has gone too far the other way.
I think he was clearly purposely going over the top and just countering all the negativity. Depends on if you're generally a glass half empty or half full person. England have been shit 3 games in, but you could also look at it as an unbeaten side with the least chances conceded in the tournament so far and one that could well be in a Quarter final by Monday without even playing well. I would imagine England will raise their game considerably when they play a team that they actually feel threatened by, a team that won't just play with a low block all game.
Well you have to remember that when tournaments come around a lot of casuals that know little about football suddenly jump on the bandwagon. These are generally the ones that expect England should be beating the likes of Serbia and Slovenia by 3 or 4 just by turning up. Some of the pundits like Ferdinand and Wright also talk a lot of shite and discredit opposition all the time, but neither are generally the sharpest tools in their tool box in general. You just have to take a lot of it with a large pinch of salt. English people that actually know and understand football know all too well the deficiencies in the England squad and where they could fail.
Weren’t you one of the biggest champions pre tournament ? In my mind it was Deuterz then you…
I said we had a chance, despite Southgate, and stand by that. For me there's no outstanding team that is far better than the rest in this tournament. People have been tossing off over Spain and Germany but when one or both get knocked out they'll act like they never said anything. Being impressive in the group stages counts for nothing. If England suddenly play well for the next couple of games nobody will suddenly give a damn about how average we were when you could get away with being average.
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Why does one person get to speak for everyone else?
That’s fair. I think Germany, Spain, Portugal, France and England all have an about equal chance. Whichever team reaches the semifinal in your side of the draw will also be capable of winning (Austria, Switzerland, Italy…?) or at least reaching the final.
Where in France are you?
England have a chance if the big players suddenly turn up. Kane, Bellingham, Saka and Foden have done little so far. But do expect them to improve now the games have more riding on them, and you also play teams who will be looking to win the game rather than take a draw. Because Southgate is crap tactically, we need to play teams who will give us a bit of space just by not sitting back with 10 men behind the ball all game.
I'm in Lille.
I agree with all those reasons and they also apply to France. The big mantra here is that the knockouts are a new tournament.
It’s precarious because you can have one bad game and get knocked out by Switzerland in a game you dominate but it is also a time when the big players find new levels.
I love Lille. Beautiful city and great beer.
Deuterz isn't the only England fan on this site.
So if the majority of people aren't like him and are pretty realistic about England's chances then how can that one person represent a stereotype?
The other mob are going to defend and try to nick it on the break or penalty’s, Southgate will allow this, we will all be screaming at him to sort this pile of shit out……it’s so fucking depressing……we should all be buzzing
THIS.
I've seen far more positive anticipation for far less gifted England squads over the years.
For me anyway it’s just so frustrating, we haven’t got half out of this squad because of Southgate. Everyone can see it except that prick, even people with no interest in football are talking about it ffs
Quite.....
There's a lot of rent-free-ism with regards to the outside perception of England and their fans too thanks to:
- 80s rep for hooliganism.
- Media hype (which is of course their job; to drum up enthusiasm, create column inches and sell papers) being projected as fan sentiment.
- The likes of Scotland & Wales giving us constant stick only to get antsy when we laugh back at them when they fall on their arse.
- ...And yes; at one point (before the internet well and truly kicked in) we were quite ignorant to the game across the rest of the world.
.....But also; there's little-to-no intent to factor in the cynicism, sarcasm and gallows humour that is commonly present in English sentiments and sense of humor....... For every person that at some point says "It's coming home" after a few pints; a large % aren't actually believing that.
Also; as we have to point out during every tournament that song itself is one of self-depreciation and resignation to having been a bit shit for decades.
......Something the Germans completely overlooked when they adopted that song a number of tournaments ago. Maybe they are the arrogant ones?
TBH; for all the reams of text that the topic has drummed up on here (between relatively few posters); it's fucking boring.
I’m confused - do you expect stereotypes to be an accurate reflection of the entire group?
It seems like you’re learning why stereotypes are wrong or harmful -‘they imbue the whole group with the characteristics of a subset of the group.
Eg. Black people are criminals is a stereotype. It’s true of SOME of the group but it’s not true of every member of the group. That’s why the stereotype is harmful or wrong.
Also, the stereotype many people in Europe have of England fans isn’t based on Deuterz. Almost no one knows who he is. He just fits the profile.