Giovani Lo Celso

  • The Fighting Cock is a forum for fans of Tottenham Hotspur Football Club. Here you can discuss Spurs latest matches, our squad, tactics and any transfer news surrounding the club. Registration gives you access to all our forums (including 'Off Topic' discussion) and removes most of the adverts (you can remove them all via an account upgrade). You're here now, you might as well...

    Get involved!

Latest Spurs videos from Sky Sports

Sort by date Sort by reaction score
Igula said:
If you say you watch the games and then say he hides you either are lying about watching the games or watching with your eyes closed.

I also have said I would sell Gio, but if you expect us to bring in a better player or be a better team by getting rid of one of the few players with actual skill and who can pass then you haven't been paying attention to our club.
Click to expand...

Yeah, he does nothing. He tries to make tackles and appear like he's getting stuck in, but on the ball he hides and doesn't do anything unpredictable or creative. Doesn't try enough of the stuff you'd want a creative mid to try. Hence why Ndombele gets put in the 10 role, because he attempts way more through balls, has created more big chances, can actually strike a ball, and beat a man.

You have your opinion, I have mine. Mine is backed up by numbers, yours isn't. Doesn't make my view right, but means calling my stance 'clueless' or saying I 'haven't been paying attention' just because I view things differently to you, is just stupid.

I'm not gonna sit here and be ultra optimistic or kind to a player who seems far more interested in playing for his NT than Spurs.
 
Raumdeuterz said:
Yeah, he does nothing. He tries to make tackles and appear like he's getting stuck in, but on the ball he hides and doesn't do anything unpredictable or creative. Doesn't try enough of the stuff you'd want a creative mid to try. Hence why Ndombele gets put in the 10 role, because he attempts way more through balls, has created more big chances, can actually strike a ball, and beat a man.

You have your opinion, I have mine. Mine is backed up by numbers, yours isn't. Doesn't make my view right, but means calling my stance 'clueless' or saying I 'haven't been paying attention' just because I view things differently to you, is just stupid.

I'm not gonna sit here and be ultra optimistic or kind to a player who seems far more interested in playing for his NT than Spurs.
Click to expand...

Your opinion is backed by stats though because the stats you are bringing up don't show what we are talking about.

Their is no creativity stat. Assists don't show creativity as you can get an assist for making a 40 yard pass beating 5 defenders with pinpoint accuracy or making a 3 foot pass to a player who then beats the whole team and scores a wonder goal in the top corner. Not sure the 2nd case really shows any sort of great creative skill.

Who said you had to be ultra optimistic? But to say stupid shit like PEH is more creative or that he hides is moronic.
 
Igula said:
Your opinion is backed by stats though because the stats you are bringing up don't show what we are talking about.

Their is no creativity stat. Assists don't show creativity as you can get an assist for making a 40 yard pass beating 5 defenders with pinpoint accuracy or making a 3 foot pass to a player who then beats the whole team and scores a wonder goal in the top corner. Not sure the 2nd case really shows any sort of great creative skill.

Who said you had to be ultra optimistic? But to say stupid shit like PEH is more creative or that he hides is moronic.
Click to expand...

You didn't like assists so I showed you he doesn't create big chances, doesn't attempt many through balls, and doesn't make many key passes. How else is he meant to create? He's attempted a lot of inaccurate crosses, I guess.

PEH has created the same amount of big chances as Lo Celso (4) in 15 less appearances, whilst playing most of his time under Jose as a destroyer. And Lo Celso does hide, from his actual role which is to create. The amount of dangerous passes he makes proves this.

Call it moronic till you're blue in the face. He likely is more creative than Hojbjerg, but he doesn't show it for Spurs at all. He's certainly a far worse option creatively than Ndombele, who still isn't even very good in that role.

All in all .. sell. Find a player who is brave on the ball and wants to create chances.
 
Raumdeuterz said:
Lo Celso has never been anything but tidy for us at best.
Click to expand...
When did you start watching? Because he got plenty of praise in Mourinho's first season.

At his best, he was drawing comparisons with Modric, another guy who doesn't show up in goals/assists. He functioned as a playmaker, with a bit of defensive bite too. Pre-assists, more than assists.

Modric, like Gio got pushed out to the flank when he started with us, and didn't look great there. I'm not saying GLC is at that level, but I'd like to see us trust his playmaking ability and play Gio centrally now he's fit and in form.
 
Belgrano said:
When did you start watching? Because he got plenty of praise in Mourinho's first season.

At his best, he was drawing comparisons with Modric, another guy who doesn't show up in goals/assists. He functioned as a playmaker, with a bit of defensive bite too. Pre-assists, more than assists.

Modric, like Gio got pushed out to the flank when he started with us, and didn't look great there. I'm not saying GLC is at that level, but I'd like to see us trust his playmaking ability and play Gio centrally now he's fit and in form.
Click to expand...

He was fine. Nothing more. Way more attention fell to Ndombele.

Never saw a single comparison to Modric. If I did I would probably have thrown up.

Sure, we can try that. If he's ever actually fit or in form when in a Spurs shirt and not an Argentina one.
 
Raumdeuterz said:
He was fine. Nothing more. Way more attention fell to Ndombele.

Never saw a single comparison to Modric. If I did I would probably have thrown up.

Sure, we can try that. If he's ever actually fit or in form when in a Spurs shirt and not an Argentina one.
Click to expand...
The Modric comparison seems laughable, but the similarity is not the overall quality, it's the fact he's small, technical, tenacious and at his best helped the whole team play better, without necessarily being the guy playing the final pass or scoring.
 
Belgrano said:
The Modric comparison seems laughable, but the similarity is not the overall quality, it's the fact he's small, technical, tenacious and at his best helped the whole team play better, without necessarily being the guy playing the final pass or scoring.
Click to expand...

I honestly hope you're right and I've completely missed something this whole time. If that playmaker type is something he's capable of doing in the premier league, then great.

But he needs to show it this season, because time and patience is running out.
 
Luka Modric is one of the best CMs of all time but I remember there being a huge school of thought that he was too lightweight to play as an 8 in the prem.

He also benefitted from Redknapp being far more daring than Nuno and past-it Jose.

Brilliant player, but he also had a coach who gave him the platform. The majority of our current players do not have this.
 
Belgrano said:
When did you start watching? Because he got plenty of praise in Mourinho's first season.

At his best, he was drawing comparisons with Modric, another guy who doesn't show up in goals/assists. He functioned as a playmaker, with a bit of defensive bite too. Pre-assists, more than assists.

Modric, like Gio got pushed out to the flank when he started with us, and didn't look great there. I'm not saying GLC is at that level, but I'd like to see us trust his playmaking ability and play Gio centrally now he's fit and in form.
Click to expand...

The disappearance of that bite is what concerns me the most tbh....... Mentally, it could be indicative of much more..... :(
 
Raumdeuterz said:
You didn't like assists so I showed you he doesn't create big chances, doesn't attempt many through balls, and doesn't make many key passes. How else is he meant to create? He's attempted a lot of inaccurate crosses, I guess.

PEH has created the same amount of big chances as Lo Celso (4) in 15 less appearances, whilst playing most of his time under Jose as a destroyer. And Lo Celso does hide, from his actual role which is to create. The amount of dangerous passes he makes proves this.

Call it moronic till you're blue in the face. He likely is more creative than Hojbjerg, but he doesn't show it for Spurs at all. He's certainly a far worse option creatively than Ndombele, who still isn't even very good in that role.

All in all .. sell. Find a player who is brave on the ball and wants to create chances.
Click to expand...

You haven’t shown anything. Nothing you have posted changes what actually occurred in the field. Stats don’t change reality.

I agree with the last part but what about this club gives you any indication they can find a player line that and then spend the money to bring him in or that the manager would use them in any way even if by some miracle we got them?
 
Igula said:
You haven’t shown anything. Nothing you have posted changes what actually occurred in the field. Stats don’t change reality.

I agree with the last part but what about this club gives you any indication they can find a player line that and then spend the money to bring him in or that the manager would use them in any way even if by some miracle we got them?
Click to expand...

The stats are just to support my perspective. Yours is different, fine. I hope you're right and I'm wrong, if so we've got an actual player on our hands. What I see is a player who doesn't create, and the stats show he doesn't. You think stats don't really matter? That's fine, your opinion.

We fundamentally disagree it would be a miracle if we could replace Lo Celso with someone better than him. To my mind, almost every premier league team has a midfielder I'd swap him out for, and it wouldn't be that hard to find somebody who fit the team and league more.

I think we could probably find a buyer, maybe from La Liga, a team may take a punt based on his Argentina performances. We certainly won't get close to what we paid for him though.
 
Raumdeuterz said:
The stats are just to support my perspective. Yours is different, fine. I hope you're right and I'm wrong, if so we've got an actual player on our hands. What I see is a player who doesn't create, and the stats show he doesn't. You think stats don't really matter? That's fine, your opinion.

We fundamentally disagree it would be a miracle if we could replace Lo Celso with someone better than him. To my mind, almost every premier league team has a midfielder I'd swap him out for, and it wouldn't be that hard to find somebody who fit the team and league more.

I think we could probably find a buyer, maybe from La Liga, a team may take a punt based on his Argentina performances. We certainly won't get close to what we paid for him though.
Click to expand...

If it is that easy how come we haven't done it?

We needed a creative midfield for two summers now and brought nobody in. We have zero players on the team aside from maybe Ndombele who comes close to being as creative as him. When was the last time we brought in a MFer as creative or with his passing ability? Eriksen?

The problem is we need two MFer's, at least, with more attacking/passing skill than GLC and we have shown zero indication that we can bring that in at all despite a desperate need for it.
 
Its not difficult to find a back-up striker, we haven't done that.

Its not difficult to find a RW, we haven't done that.

Just saying it isn't difficult to find something isn't good enough because this club has shown that they can't do things that aren't difficult time and time again.

Selling GLC and replacing him with Dele/Moura/Ndombele doesn't make us better in any way. Selling GLC and replacing him with the crap player we bring doesn't make us better.
 
Igula said:
If it is that easy how come we haven't done it?

We needed a creative midfield for two summers now and brought nobody in. We have zero players on the team aside from maybe Ndombele who comes close to being as creative as him. When was the last time we brought in a MFer as creative or with his passing ability? Eriksen?

The problem is we need two MFer's, at least, with more attacking/passing skill than GLC and we have shown zero indication that we can bring that in at all despite a desperate need for it.
Click to expand...

Lo Celso/Ndombele represented a big outlay. I can only assume the club is being very patient with them as a result, and the turnover when it comes to managers probably contributes to that. They'll both have time to show Nuno they're worth keeping around.

We've hired a DoF now, and if he can't bring in a creative midfielder better than what Lo Celso has shown in a Spurs shirt so far, we're in trouble. Obviously he shouldn't be sold and not replaced, but I'd rather the club took a risk on someone else than stick with something not working.

But again, he has this season. If he nails down a place and looks great, awesome. I'll hold my hands up and will be happy to be completely wrong.
 
Raumdeuterz said:
Lo Celso/Ndombele represented a big outlay. I can only assume the club is being very patient with them as a result, and the turnover when it comes to managers probably contributes to that. They'll both have time to show Nuno they're worth keeping around.

We've hired a DoF now, and if he can't bring in a creative midfielder better than what Lo Celso has shown in a Spurs shirt so far, we're in trouble. Obviously he shouldn't be sold and not replaced, but I'd rather the club took a risk on someone else than stick with something not working.

But again, he has this season. If he nails down a place and looks great, awesome. I'll hold my hands up and will be happy to be completely wrong.
Click to expand...

Bringing in a crap DOF doesn't give me much confidence that things will change as we saw with the crap window we just had with the same issues we always have before the "Don" came in.
 
Raumdeuterz said:
I tend to agree, but (again!!) live in hope that I'm wrong about my pessimism.
Click to expand...

I hope you are right, like I said I think we should look at moving on from GLC because with his injury history and fit for what the club wants to do I don't see the fit. Trying to force him to be a number 8 in a plodding MF with poor ball playing CB's makes no sense.

I just don't want to get rid of a player that has skill in the area we are missing the most in this team (passing/creativity) without having multiple solid options to replace it.
 
Igula said:
I hope you are right, like I said I think we should look at moving on from GLC because with his injury history and fit for what the club wants to do I don't see the fit. Trying to force him to be a number 8 in a plodding MF with poor ball playing CB's makes no sense.

I just don't want to get rid of a player that has skill in the area we are missing the most in this team (passing/creativity) without having multiple solid options to replace it.
Click to expand...
I think we are going to have to keep both Ndombele and GLC until it's close to their contract running out, simply because no club will take a risk on either of them.
It's still my belief that an elite manager could engineer an effective midfield playing both Ndombele and GLC, but Nuno is not that guy.
With Nuno we should play Hojbjerg and Skipp, and rotate GLC and Ndombele for the AM spot.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom