Jose Mourinho

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Guido said:
I really doubt that but I'd play along. Messi is still one of the very best players in the World, we all know this because he still plays football. Bale had barely kicked a ball. Most normal people could see he was a punt, a shot into the unknown, has he or hasn't he still got it? Turns out he hasn't, it's no biggie, we just send him back to Madrid.
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Thats cause you are sensible and you didnt have super high expectations of Bale. Dont you remember how everyone was whining at you for not being as overexcited about Bale as they were
 
adasai said:
Thats cause you are sensible and you didnt have super high expectations of Bale. Dont you remember how everyone was whining at you for not being as overexcited about Bale as they were
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Sure but really I can't believe that he and he alone created the illusion. In an attempt to draw an example, Bale has hardly kicked a ball for us, yet in Dec we were top of the league with people talking about our strength and depth. In the limited mins he did play it was clear to all he was not the player that left or even one that looks capable of elevating this team.
 
swinbag said:
Appreciate the response - the rival fan comparison doesn't really do it for me; they'll pop in a few times a year, engage in a bit of banter and occasionally have some reasonably unbiased debate surrounding the matchday squads or the result.

The posters I was referring to specifically go out of their way to attack or bully other members on here who dare criticize their lord and saviour José, it's fanboyism at it's most cynical and they offer nothing constructive to discussions regarding Tottenham Hotspur Football Club - which is what this forum was created for first and foremost.

Of course, they're welcome to sign up and post wherever and whatever they like - that's the beauty of the internet, but to expect an ex UTD/ Chelsea fan who blindly backs a manager (and attacks anyone that doesn't) to be given a free-ride on here is asking for a lot, in my opinion.

I'll add them to my ignore list moving forwards and continue to enjoy using the forums.
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BURN THEM AT THE FUCKING STAKE. NINETEENTH-CENTURY CUNTS.
 
swinbag said:
Appreciate the response - the rival fan comparison doesn't really do it for me; they'll pop in a few times a year, engage in a bit of banter and occasionally have some reasonably unbiased debate surrounding the matchday squads or the result.

The posters I was referring to specifically go out of their way to attack or bully other members on here who dare criticize their lord and saviour José, it's fanboyism at it's most cynical and they offer nothing constructive to discussions regarding Tottenham Hotspur Football Club - which is what this forum was created for first and foremost.

Of course, they're welcome to sign up and post wherever and whatever they like - that's the beauty of the internet, but to expect an ex UTD/ Chelsea fan who blindly backs a manager (and attacks anyone that doesn't) to be given a free-ride on here is asking for a lot, in my opinion.

I'll add them to my ignore list moving forwards and continue to enjoy using the forums.
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Hmmm, you make some very good points to be honest.

The rival fan comparison was meant to illustrate (in an extreme way, granted) that someone's perceived or stated allegiance should not automatically mean that they ae not welcome or shouldn't be trusted...in the same way that a 'Jose fan' should not be automatically slanted as some sort of 'infiltrator' on this (public) forum.

That said, I wholeheartedly agree that anyone who hounds or bullies someone on here should be rightly called out for it (giving them a chance to apologize) or get banned or sin-binned or whatever is the norm here...no excuse for that kind of thing anywhere in life.

I'd also agree that nobody deserves a free ride on here either (or anywhere else for that matter!), but I have genuine concerns that while some 'infiltrators' (not my term) may be out to cause problems and bully people, there are also many who are not like that at all, but they get labelled as such regardless (usually by idiots).

To give you some credit, I believe that you can tell the difference...but I know for sure that some folks on here cannot or will not differentiate...to some, all Jose Fans are scum and their opinions are worthless (read some of the childish vitriol). I call this 'forum policing' (my term) and I don't like it one bit...and I call out anyone doing it regularly because it's just wrong!

Ultimately, what differentiates your view on this topic from mine is that I don't even care why someone decided to join up and post on here, its just not relevant to me (and many others too it would seem).

As long as they come in peace, who cares why they are here...if they can raise a decent discussion and act like a grown up, then that's fine by me. ..by the same logic, if they come to start $hit and bully people, then let them have it with both barrels I say!
 
Guido said:
Matic was an old cart horse when they bought him (Chelsea sells all their old players brilliantly and get decent money for players on the declining curve (Matic, Cech, Willian, Luiz, Cahill, Fabregas, Costa, Cuadrado, Begovic etc.....).

Dier was 23yrs old at the time, a stalwart in an exhilarating, energetic team competing at the top of the league. He also admitted it was "impossible" to get a spurs player:

JM: "Can we go to Tottenham and buy their best players? No - because they don't sell or because they are so powerful they can say no.

"A few years ago, who was Tottenham's best player? Michael Carrick.

"A few years later, who was their best player? Berbatov".

"Can we go now there and bring Harry Kane, Dele Alli, Dier, Eriksen, Son?

"Can we go there and bring the guys here? No

"So, who is more powerful now. Them or us?"

So, buy a player at the end of their career from a Club that is willing to sell its old players is completly different when trying to acquire a player that's already identified as very good but due to their age still has the percentage to rise far higher but most certainly can contribute to aside for many years rather than just a quick fix for a couple. Dier was an important target of their who they tapped up numerous times, even in the player's tunnel in front of Poch!

Your rationale for his greatness today is what he's done in his past, with the exception of Porto (19yrs ago) he's managed a Football Club that had built the most expensive squads assembled in the History of the game. He's an out of date chequebook manager.
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Matic was the preferred target (why is a different debate) and he was bought for £40m, but you instead believe an article claiming that they were willing to pay £50m for Dier who was lower on the list. Everything esle you wrote is irrelevant and does not change the fact that you would be gulible to believe that article.

Mourinho's body of work (both highs and lows) is there for everyone to see. I am not arguing for his current greatness or decline, as I dont see either being objective if taken out of context. My position is simply that you cannot fairly evaluate any manager (not only Mourinho) until he has the type of squad and with quality matching the objective he is being evaluated against. (you cannot have championship level players and then blame the manager when the team is relegated). If a club is not willing or able to do that, then they shouldnt have hired said manager.

This is not about giving an arbitrary number of season, e.g. if the inherited squad meets the requirement, then there is no need to give more than a season or two. Our current squad is simply not where it should be for how Mourinho sets up his teams, and until it is, I dont see the fairness in saying he is past it or guaranteed to succeed.
 
Guido said:
No, I prefer a coach to do some actual coaching. Improve the players at his disposal, as a consequence improve the team's performances and do this while playing entertaining football. Then look to bring in players with a specific profile to play their game.

True to form, every Dinosaur apologist brings back the conversation to their nemesis, the man that put the Dino in the museum. Your obsession with him is truly comical. I imagine you keep journals dedicated to him, dreaming up some elaborate plan of execution.......
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Your use of players to prove a particular point about chequebook managers is utterly baffling, given that the manager at Tottenham during this time did this:

skysports-mauricio-pochettino_4297567.jpg
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The silly net spend argument. Net spend is simply a disingenous way to hide bad transfer policy. Net spend is for penny pinchers like Levy to wank over.

The true measure of transfer policy is how much was spent and which players it was spent on. As an example, the fact that Pep spent £50m on Walker does not justify our paying £42m for Sanchez .

But even if I were to humor you on the net spend, I would like to hear your explanation why klopp and Liverpool have won the highest honors while Poch failed to deliver a single domestic cup, when even Swansea and Wigan have won cups in the same decade.

At the end of the day, a manager should be judged taking into consideration the suitability and quality of the squad at his disposal. Whether the players were inherited, bought, or came through the academy is irrelevant.
 
swinbag said:
Appreciate the response - the rival fan comparison doesn't really do it for me; they'll pop in a few times a year, engage in a bit of banter and occasionally have some reasonably unbiased debate surrounding the matchday squads or the result.

The posters I was referring to specifically go out of their way to attack or bully other members on here who dare criticize their lord and saviour José, it's fanboyism at it's most cynical and they offer nothing constructive to discussions regarding Tottenham Hotspur Football Club - which is what this forum was created for first and foremost.

Of course, they're welcome to sign up and post wherever and whatever they like - that's the beauty of the internet, but to expect an ex UTD/ Chelsea fan who blindly backs a manager (and attacks anyone that doesn't) to be given a free-ride on here is asking for a lot, in my opinion.

I'll add them to my ignore list moving forwards and continue to enjoy using the forums.
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I find it the other way a lot too. Try and defend something about mourinho or something good that happens and you dont hate everything about him you get slaughtered for it ye get called a fanboy, dinosaur, not a spurs fan.
Its working both ways here in this place
 
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