Just go watch your aftv now , im sure you guys have your own forums instead of coming here to troll.
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Mate, you're the one acting like a gooner melt. Why don't you go join their ranks where you can spray each others faces with spittle and pop a vein every time results don't go your way, whining about how it's not good enough for your sacred club which has a sacred right to win, etc?
Every argument you make is taken straight from their rantings.
Igula
But we did have the team to compete, as I mentioned those two semi finals of the FA Cup in 2016 and 2017, we beat Chelsea 2-0 three months prior to them turning us over in the semi final, the following year we beat Utd 2-0 at Wembley three months prior to them beating us at Wembley 2-1, after we took the lead nonetheless.
You can look at our previous matches, losing against Portsmouth in the FA Cup semi, losing on pens in the Carling Cup final against Man Utd. utter nonsense to say it's down to lack of investement when the likes of Wigan, Swansea, Birmingham have won cups the last time we actually won something.
You're re-writing history - Davies was playing well, if you recall he played a big part in our season after Rose got injured against Sunderland and if I recall Rose got injured on the last day of the transfer window. So Poch had the option of playing a recognised left back at left back or play a player out of position, he chose the latter
The following season he played Vorm in goal in the semi against Utd and dropped Lloris for some inexplicable reason, you gonna tell me that when the team sheet came out you pointed the finger at ENIC...let me guess ENIC should have bought Neuer to deputise for Lloris that season?
Dogshit Lucas?
Nah sorry your argument is all over the place, you realise Lucas was responsible fot taking us to the final, he was on form and he dropped him for an unfit Kane, that's all on the coach and incidently a coach who sent out a message to his players before the final saying that his intention is to leave after the final, but yeah let's blame Levy for that lolIn the last 4 final's we've scored 0 (zero) goals, whatever way you want to look at it that's a mentality problem, we've been good enough to score at least 1 goal in that time, for a team who boasts the likes of Kane, Eriksen, Dele, Lucas, Son in that time to score 0 goals is pathetic and down to the players and the management.
You won't see me disagreeing with you in regards to our current squad and I agree Levy should take a lot of blame for leaving it in the state it's currently in but in regards to the Chelsea match we gave Chelsea all 3 goals in that tie, both games we were beaten in our heads before we kicked off, to me it was obvious that Conte threw the 2nd leg, Conte played Doherty at LWB when he had Sessegnon on the bench and he played Gollini in goal, he had the tools to put a better team out and didn't utilise them but IMO he did that to focus on the league so I don't blame him that much.
Brighton outplayed Chelsea twice recently, yes Brighton a team who are below us in the table , you have to ask yourself how comes they can turn up against a team like Chelsea and not fear them like we do? Is that down to their chairman putting signifigant funds in, I don't think so
When you look at thing is context you're realise that things aren't so binary.
Abramovich doesn't pour billions into Liverpool, Leicester, WH and yet they have all been ahead of us last year.
Abramovich didn't pour billions into Dynamo Zagreb or Mura when they put us out of Europe.
We got to semi-finals and finals before Levy so not sure why you would give him credit for that.
I don't even know what to say about that.
So now it's ENICs credit, that some of the old PL clubs around us are run by absolute amateurs?
This is worse than the "net spend" argument.
You mean the year we lost all identity under the Dinosaur and had to appoint Ryan Mason as an interim? Tell me how many times West Ham or Leicester finished above us since 2001.
Liverpool are a different animal, and even they were behind us for years until they lucked out on Klopp.
What about when we beat the reigning champions (Madrid) and got to a CL final?
You might think we should have given our all in the ECL but I do not, and an thankful we don't have to waste our midweek energy on it.
Because in that era you didn't have Abramovich and Mansour utterly transforming the financial landscape of the league. We are in a period where the top honors in English football have been concentrated in the fewest hands ever.
Staying competitive in such an era is an achievement to me, even if we keep falling short at the finish line.
Aha, so this it seems is where we disagree. For me, our average league position in the last 10 years (for example) indicates they must have been doing something right. For you, for the reasons you state, you think differently. And that's fine - we're both entitled to our opinions, and both have some kind of rationale to support them.
One thing is for certain though - having conversations and providing rationales, such as in the last couple of pages here, albeit whilst still disagreeing, is a million times better than all calling each other cunts / bots / idiots etc, hopefully we can all agree with that.
So now we just ignore the things we don't like?
Leicester finished ahead of us in 2015-16 without using big money.
They didn't luck into Klopp they had smart football people and let them make decisions unlikely Levy who chases those guys out.
It was great to see how we built on that by backing the manager that got us there and strengthening our squad....
Good thing we got out of Europe early lately to boost our amazing results in the PL.
Again it isn't just City and Chelsea winning things so that pathetic excuse doesn't work.
Says who?
People on the internet talk a big game about their expertise in things they have never been anywhere near other than watching from the stands or on telly.
The truth is that making a successful football team/club is very HARD. That's why only a handful are ever successful.
Nottingham Forest used to be the best club in Europe. Tottenham Hotspur used to be a powerhouse club in England in the 60s. These things change, and I would argue that the reason we have any hope of ever becoming anything like that again is thanks to the management we currently have.
Like I said, of course we can point to mistakes made along the way, but yo suggest that it's a given that we should be winning titles and anything other than that is just amateurish failure is just absurd to me.
Say what?
Saying we should have won more in 21 blooming years with our relative position is absurd?
What on earth are you on about?
Aha, so this it seems is where we disagree. For me, our average league position in the last 10 years (for example) indicates they must have been doing something right. For you, for the reasons you state, you think differently. And that's fine - we're both entitled to our opinions, and both have some kind of rationale to support them.
One thing is for certain though - having conversations and providing rationales, such as in the last couple of pages here, albeit whilst still disagreeing, is a million times better than all calling each other cunts / bots / idiots etc, hopefully we can all agree with that.
League position say nothing, really. Prize money apart, the league is about 1st, 4th and 18-20st.
I am a sucker for stats which measure succes, by anually making comparisons to pts count from 1st, 4th and 18th. But that's just me.
The fact remains, that lots of clubs find it in no way "hard" to build succesfull team, that win titles and cups in all sorts of competitions. With all the luck, coincidence etc involved.
But 21 years is no coincidence.
Make no mistake: We have consolidated our league position and we have rode the commercial + broadcasting rights inflation very cleverly. But that's it. As for the managment of the FC itself, it's pretty much of a muchness.
That seems to be your MO more than mine, bud...
Yes. They fluked it. Is that supposed to be a damning indictment of Spurs?
And it still took them years to catch up to little ol' Spurs.
It was great to see how we had gotten to that point in the first place by having smart football people make decisions which gained us an elite squad.
Chicken and egg, mate.
Yes. Otherwise we'd be even worse off in the league than we are and would be flying to Albania on Thursday nights.
City have won 3 of the last 7 league titles, with Chelsea winning 2 and beating them in the CL final. The only other winners were Liverpool and Leicester's fluke, and City are clearly going to win again this year.
What's pathetic is pretending that money hasn't made the difference.
That's not what's being said though, is it? It's being claimed that ENIC have been an abject failure who have somehow held us back.
That's absurd.
You don't quite get it, do you? Or are you just being contrarian for the sake of it?
Money is fantastic, but you still have to convert into football performances.
The financial gains made, relatively, by ENIC in a grateful and massively inflating market has been converted into pretty much nothing. Apart from relative league positions. Which apart from 1st, 4th and 18th means pretty little.
Well, sorry, but that is what football is about for football fans.
This is a Tottenham Hotspur FC forum.
Not an investment banking benchmarking one.
What did you expect?
I get what you're saying in terms of honours.
But if you've finished 5th you've enjoyed a heck of a lot more wins than finishing 17th. And ultimately football is about enjoying the matches.
I'm simply pointing out facts that undermine the unhelpful narrative.
Yes and only a precious few ever manage to do that. This is why United and Woolwich dominated the league as the two richest clubs, until Abramovic came along and turned Chelsea into the richest club, leading to their dominance. Then along came City's financial upgrade, leading them to dominate.
It's not exactly a difficult pattern to spot. Are you being contrarian for thr sake of it?
Aside from a state of the art stadium and a squad which reached a CL final.
If you truly believe that then I don't know why you even bother watching this sport.
Well again that seems to be a key point on which we disagree - for me league position is about as good a measure as you can get for success - 38 games, no prisoners, nowhere to hide. But if you want to look at other factors as well / instead, of course that's your right.
I disagree. Football fans like seeing their teams play good football and be competitive. Why do you think fans flock to grounds up and down the country and around the world to watch teams with almost zero chance of winning a trophy?
I can take your attempt at claiming the high ground and shove it places the sun don't shine. You know which fans care only about winning trophies?
Glory hunting plastic fans. You wanna own that position you go right ahead.
So let's discuss Tottenham Hotspur FC and the fact that we are a competitive club in a landscape dominated by super-rich giants and still somehow manage to hang in there.
A football fan, not a plastic glory hunter.
I didn't start this mate, but I sure have no reason to quiver in my shoes.
Well again that seems to be a key point on which we disagree - for me league position is about as good a measure as you can get for success - 38 games, no prisoners, nowhere to hide. But if you want to look at other factors as well / instead, of course that's your right.
Success = winning trophies. Finishing high in the league doesn't get you any prizes. It isn't successful.