Levy / ENIC

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I don't know why anybody bothers arguing on this matter, for the most part people have "picked sides" even when they claim to be neutral on the matter they are still often swayed in a particular direction with bias.

My point being, how often has anybody actually changed someone else's opinion on here with these arguments for or against the ownership?

I think we need fresh ideas and that Levy has failed the club on the footballing side of things but I also know that it is completely redundant me arguing with someone who thinks otherwise because only 1% of people are willing to change their opinion on these kind of matters where opinions are so deeply entrenched.

I have a fluid opinion on the ownership, if they change and show true change and that they are willing to put the football team as a priority then my opinion of the ownership will change, when they appointed Conte it surprised me and they deserve credit for that.

But, if the manager isn't backed and he ends up walking because he hasn't been backed then nothing has changed has it?

And no amount of "be patient, give the owners a chance" will change that, been hearing that for far too long and I do have to wonder sometimes why people feel so inclined to support the ownership, seem to be willing to die on that hill in the way that people want to die on the hill for Boris Johnson.

It's a weird mentality and I will never understand it.
 
NorseYid said:
Really? I understand it fully well. Partisan supporters including me are constantly faced with mockery from other supporters and even the press.

So we grap whatever straw we can, and the business development side of Spurs has been significant compared to a number of other mid table clubs, to the point of us along with Woolwich being the most developed football businesses outside of the sugar-daddy clubs. Along with an overal improvement in league performances, in particular in the Redknapp and Poch reigns, that is a forceful reply to outsiders.

That partisanships slowly creeps into the inter-supporter bickerings. Not hard to understand at all, IMO.

Unfortunately, it's not an answer to the discrepancy in that huge big fucking elephant sized topic, which ENIC would rather not discuss: The difference between what ENIC says and what ENIC does.
Let alone how well ENIC does it.



That's literally not what I said, though. Literally.

Please stop making up stuff in order to reclaim victimhood.
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I don't understand why you keep bringing up 'victimhood' - I'm not doing that at all, in all of my posts I'm constantly saying that all sides behave inappropriately to each other at times, that's not 'claiming victimhood', it's just seeing all sides and recognising that neither side behaves perfectly towards each other. I've appreciated you discussing this with me today, but given that we're obviously not going to agree on the ENIC topic, I'm just finally trying to find something that we do agree on, as I always feel that's a good way to finish any debate where people are agreeing to disagree on the main topic. :) For example we might be able to agree that:

- 99.9% of people on here are primarily football fans and Spurs fans, but just have different opinions on what ENIC does, how successful it is etc
- all forum members are entitled to hold and voice their opinions on the above
- the forum would be better without either side being ridiculed, insulted etc

If we can't agree on any of those points then so be it - I'd just like to if we could. That's not you 'giving in' in any way - it's just trying to find some middle ground. Perhaps it's selfish / self-indulgent, I just feel the forum is a better place if we all find something to agree on, nomatter how minor or trivial it might seem. I'd just like to leave discussions thinking that deep down we're all well-meaning reasonably-minded human beings...
 
scarletjim said:
I don't understand why you keep bringing up 'victimhood' - I'm not doing that at all, in all of my posts I'm constantly saying that all sides behave inappropriately to each other at times, that's not 'claiming victimhood', it's just seeing all sides and recognising that neither side behaves perfectly towards each other. I've appreciated you discussing this with me today, but given that we're obviously not going to agree on the ENIC topic, I'm just finally trying to find something that we do agree on, as I always feel that's a good way to finish any debate where people are agreeing to disagree on the main topic. :) For example we might be able to agree that:

- 99.9% of people on here are primarily football fans and Spurs fans, but just have different opinions on what ENIC does, how successful it is etc
- all forum members are entitled to hold and voice their opinions on the above
- the forum would be better without either side being ridiculed, insulted etc

If we can't agree on any of those points then so be it - I'd just like to if we could. That's not you 'giving in' in any way - it's just trying to find some middle ground. Perhaps it's selfish / self-indulgent, I just feel the forum is a better place if we all find something to agree on, nomatter how minor or trivial it might seem. I'd just like to leave discussions thinking that deep down we're all well-meaning reasonably-minded human beings...
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Oh no.

You told me, that it was "insulting" to take other posters arguments at face value.

Then you turned it to me not agreeing that insults are unacceptable.

Which is - again - quite literally not what I said.
 
NorseYid said:
Oh no.

You told me, that it was "insulting" to take other posters arguments at face value.

Then you turned it to me not agreeing that insults are unacceptable.

Which is - again - quite literally not what I said.
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Ok, as I say, I've tried to find something to agree on, clearly it's not gonna happen. Thanks for taking the time to discuss today - I do appreciate it. Enjoy the rest of your weekend (let's hope we're particularly enjoying 6.30pm tomorrow :) ).
 
It's funny watching the anti-Levy lot rile themselves up with scenarios that haven't even happened yet. Levy might back Conte, he might not, but coming out with crap like "the general consensus is that Conte is unhappy" is laughable. General consensus according to whom?

If we hire a shit manager, it's because none of the good ones want to work under Levy. When we hire a good one it's Levy's fault for not backing him. When we do well in the league it's Poch's doing. When we do badly it's Levy's fault. Same applies for transfers. We don't spend, he's chastised. We spend big, he's wasteful. It's so fucking boring.

I'm not sitting here saying Levy is a god because of course he's made many mistakes but some of you lot are so deeply ingrained in your hatred of Levy I genuinely believe you want us to fail so you can blame him and be proven right.

The fact that the majority of people seemingly lack the ability to be objective at all when discussing issues like this or politics just sums up exactly why it's a pointless discussion. If you said fair enough, he's done XYZ for the club but I feel these mistakes outweigh that then your argument would at least hold some credibility; mindlessly ranting about the same things over and over just makes you come across as an uneducated moron imo.
 
Borks said:
It's funny watching the anti-Levy lot rile themselves up with scenarios that haven't even happened yet. Levy might back Conte, he might not
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It's a fair point that we can change the way we're operating at any time. Levy's problems are capable of being fixed.

Which I mention after watching that Everton protest against a board who have been ambitious and spent big, and man they've really fucked everything up.

That could be the outcome here too of course, and our dogshit scouting makes that a pretty live worry, but To Dare Is To Do, plus we've got Antonio Conte not Roberto Martinez.
Borks said:
When we do well in the league it's Poch's doing.
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There are no two ways about this I'm afraid.

Forget the team as a whole, look at the individual players who have never been anywhere near as good as they were in that Poch team before or after. Dele, Dier, Rose, and Dembele at the very least. Eriksen, arguably Toby and Walker. He got handed a dog's breakfast of a squad and elevated it beyond all expectation.
 
Borks said:
It's funny watching the anti-Levy lot rile themselves up with scenarios that haven't even happened yet. Levy might back Conte, he might not, but coming out with crap like "the general consensus is that Conte is unhappy" is laughable. General consensus according to whom?

If we hire a shit manager, it's because none of the good ones want to work under Levy. When we hire a good one it's Levy's fault for not backing him. When we do well in the league it's Poch's doing. When we do badly it's Levy's fault. Same applies for transfers. We don't spend, he's chastised. We spend big, he's wasteful. It's so fucking boring.

I'm not sitting here saying Levy is a god because of course he's made many mistakes but some of you lot are so deeply ingrained in your hatred of Levy I genuinely believe you want us to fail so you can blame him and be proven right.

The fact that the majority of people seemingly lack the ability to be objective at all when discussing issues like this or politics just sums up exactly why it's a pointless discussion. If you said fair enough, he's done XYZ for the club but I feel these mistakes outweigh that then your argument would at least hold some credibility; mindlessly ranting about the same things over and over just makes you come across as an uneducated moron imo.
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I'm sure our dear departed friend ArcspacE ArcspacE would agree with this? RIP
 
I think Levy will look to bring in that orange bloke David Dickinson as our DOF next .

Levy “ cheap as chips you say , done”

Conte looks like a guy thinking , I am not trying to sign Mbappe or Harland FFS why is this taking an eternity
 
CroSpurs said:
So one trophy would be enough for you to say ENIC is doing good job over last 20 years?
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Sure .... are you saying keep ranting until we win the quadruple every season?

Winning any trophies in the City/Chelsea era is a massive ask, just one would indeed be great. You can't support a club based on trophies alone, if you did 95% of clubs would have zero supporters.
 
The Outsider said:
Sure .... are you saying keep ranting until we win the quadruple every season?

Winning any trophies in the City/Chelsea era is a massive ask, just one would indeed be great. You can't support a club based on trophies alone, if you did 95% of clubs would have zero supporters.
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The fact is we won 1 trophey in 20 years under ENIC, and it's league cup. Nobody is asking for quadruple every season, not even close to that.
Apparently winning trophies while City and Chelsea are running the things, is too much to ask.
Woolwich won 4 trophies in last 10 years. Leicester won 2. Even fucking Wigan won more than us.

But yeah, we are ranting because we want quadruple every season.
 
CroSpurs said:
The fact is we won 1 trophey in 20 years under ENIC, and it's league cup. Nobody is asking for quadruple every season, not even close to that.
Apparently winning trophies while City and Chelsea are running the things, is too much to ask.
Woolwich won 4 trophies in last 10 years. Leicester won 2. Even fucking Wigan won more than us.

But yeah, we are ranting because we want quadruple every season.
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So clarify? what would stop you ranting?

Is it just one trophy? is it 4, or is there a bigger number in mind?

I've answered your question, will you now answer mine?
 
The Outsider said:
So clarify? what would stop you ranting?

Is it just one trophy? is it 4, or is there a bigger number in mind?

I've answered your question, will you now answer mine?
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From ENIC? At this point we would have to win the league for me to say it's alright. Levy did so many wrong decisions over last couple of years, and before too. But this with Nuno is the biggest fuck you to the fans we experienced.

We have the most expensive tickets for what? Luxury of the stadium or competing on the pitch?

He got Conte because he was desperate and even now he shows he's still the same, reluctant to change. But he'll have to because Conte won't be here for long.
 
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