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There is an actual points column and the last column is 3 points per game.
And then if you told those people we wouldn't win a single trophy, would they still see it as successful? I'd take an FA Cup + Europa League over those years of being in the CL, wouldn't you? It was 'success' to a point, but there are limits to it. And there's no nuance, he's a moron who dislikes fans who wants trophies more than he's willing to criticise the reason why we haven't managed to win any.
We don't compare to most clubs up and down the football pyramid because we're in the top 1% of football clubs in the world when it comes to ticket prices. This comes with adjusted expectations of being part of the elite, not just a club which fights to survive or be promoted.
Yes, and we monitored our success via whether or not we got top 4 for years. It's old now, people want more than just 'yey, we qualified!' and I don't bloody blame them. Conte certainly won't be calling it a 'success' if we qualify. Maybe we should take a leaf from our current managers book.
No more bogus than the consistent sniping at our own fans for calling us 'Spursy' or having their own self doubts which are based on what the club has had to offer in the last 15 years.
Meh, phone screens
We actually finished 3rd that year
(2 horse race….)
We finished 2nd to Chelsea that season we got 86 points.
The Leicester season we finished 3rd on 70 points behind Woolwich on 71.
I'm not sure I understand this? .....You're rhetorically asking me if a journey is rendered meaningless unless it ends in the ultimate victory. Surely my take on that is entirely evident?
I've seen us win an FA Cup.....
I've seen us win a 2nd tier European trophy.
Never seen us in the ultimate final having earned the opportunity to vy for the biggest cup in the world.
......Until then.
Getting there is tangible. It was a high, just not as high as winning it.
Personally; I don't care to label it "success". Call it "relative success" for ease of articulation sake if you wish, but the semantics are not what's important to me..... It was simply extremely meaningful to me as a 40+ year Spurs fan and I'll take pride in it (as indeed I took immense joy from the journey) until we can go one step further (ditto our coming 2nd in 16/17).
Bin all that for an FA cup?
Personally; no.
....Well of course, in dogmatic terms EVERYTHING is relative to the ultimate victory in one's respective sport.
That's quite the psycho-analysis. I'll leave you to thrash that out further 1-on-1 if that's where you're at with each other.....
......London plays a HUGE part in that. 3 most expensive clubs in the UK are the 3 biggest in the capital.
We're merely the 5th richest in our league.
Oooops... Forgot Nu-castle.... Back down to 6th we plop again.
Of course, but I've not suggested we should measure ourselves to such a low bar.....
"Expectation" to be one of the "eilte", however, when we have still been vastly out-gunned (financially) for the last 20 years and beyond isn't the wisest.
Equally, I don't cry, get jealous and declare us an embarrassment the moment Everton or Villa open their wallets.
Again, I've not suggested we should just eternally frame ourselves as hunting the 'Top 4 Trophy' either.
....However; taking it for granted and "expecting" it is selective ignorance given we are the 6th richest club in our league.
Given the joyless, perpetually fatalistic trauma-hounds in question and the way they conducted themselves throughout the high points of the last 15 years.....? I disagree.
We didn't win an FA Cup because of my outlook and appreciation for the good shit we've been through?
Nah.
We'd have won more if I'd jealously whinged about every penny the Chavs and Everton spent at every turn like the boy
Don Corleone
?Nah.
We actually finished 3rd that year
(2 horse race….)
The 2 horse race is a myth. Arse was top of the pops in Jan iirc. We weren't.
The 2 horse race banter was a massive deflection from their side to cover up their bottle job.
That's nice .. I haven't. I've seen us win one league cup and even then I was so young I can barely remember it. Meanwhile all the fans I know of other rival clubs have been able to celebrate big moments, even pissing Leicester fans. The only mercy has been the lack of West Ham trophies so it's practically over for everyone if they end up winning the EL as well.
It's over???
(......Not to worry, mate. We can blame 'the curse'..... It's a legit thing now apparently.
)
This argument always gets broken down to one or the other but it's not as simple as that, there's a load of nuance that people miss (or people want to purposely misconstrued for some strange reason) but there you go...
I say success is relative to what the expectations are for every club, for example a successful season for Man City, Utd, Chelsea and Liverpool would be to win a big trophy if you can't do that win something, a successful season for us and Woolwich at this very moment is to win a trophy or if you can' do that finish top 4. Just because we are bunched into the top 6 bracket doesn't mean that we should all be defined by the same standards, of course if you compare those clubs with us at the moment and Arse they are or should be primed to win whilst we are not.
Do you consider a successful season if we finished bottom half of the table and we picked up the Carabao i.e 2008? Would that mean a win for the club if they did that as opposed to finishing 2nd in the league and reaching the FA Cup final and losing for example? Do you think the likes of Kane is likely to believe in the club and stay on if we finished in mid table and picked up the Carabao as opposed to finishing 2nd and playing CL football the following season?
After they blew up we were the only team that could mathematically catch Leicester - hence a 2 horse race for the title - Leicester strolled home at a canter as we pulled up in the last furlong!
Ok this explains a lot. You’re barely out of your teens (if that) so your perspective is understandable.
You might not even have been born when ENIC took over.
I am well out of my teens .. you realise we last won a trophy 15 years ago right? So fans could be about 10 when we won the league cup and not have many memories of that?
Man you lot are persistent in your defence. We get it, you're all too intelligent, mature and superior to care about trophies. The genius ownership model led by ENIC (insert revenue growth % here) is above silly little things like silverware. We know.
They don't get it and they never will. They're so pretentiously obsessed with being the toppest of the top fans because they don't care about winning things. Real fans don't care about trophies, just revenue growth and average league position in a decade.
They portray themselves as the 'reasonable' bunch when really they're just on the other end of the scale.
You went on a big decontextualised rant when
Shadydan
said trophies weren’t the be all and end all. That’s not the same as anything else you’ve complained about the including the baffling strawman that people don’t care about trophies. Success and progress just lean FAR MORE than that so it’s dumb to reduce success to one metric.
You went on a big decontextualised rant when
Success and progress just lean FAR MORE than that so it’s dumb to reduce success to one metric.
You're all just copies of each other. Same boring stuff.
Au revoir.
West Ham and Leicester both heading out of the Ropey Leagues having spent all their energy trying to get to the finals and win.
Both will finish well outside of top 4 and could feasibly miss out on Europe altogether if their form continues to tank.
Absolute poster chilre for why over committing to these 2 poor competitions is a terrible decision.
Both will finish well outside of top 4 and could feasibly miss out on Europe altogether if their form continues to tank.
Absolute poster chilre for why over committing to these 2 poor competitions is a terrible decision.