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Management Ange Postecoglou

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BlackLips said:
You are quite dense. No one is trying to discount and say it doesn’t count. But the real question isn’t about “where do we deserve to be” which is what you get so hung up on. I agree, you deserve to be where you are. That’s the way this game works. The question is, who should be the manager moving forward? And when you’re projecting and predicting, context matters. And when you have 10 games that show one thing. And 68 games that show another. Including a clear trend and a 17th finish this year. You’d be a moron to not see that those first 10 games look like a bit of an outlier. A new manager bounce is called that for a reason. Almost every team gets it.
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Hark at you lol...the irony of calling me dense when you're struggling to understand what the debate is about...how about we take a deep breath and try to understand what we're debating before we wade in with irrelevant nonsense like you've done...again.

This is where the debate started and this is where Harrier tried to discount his first 10 matches:

Harrier said:
He finished 5th due to the opening run of 10 games.

Once the other managers sussed out how to beat us the form fell off a cliff.
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As for the rest of your post which is again irrelevant to the discussion, "Ange finished 5th in the EPL" is a cast iron fact, you can conflate the 2 seasons if you so wish and you are 100% correct in saying that overall his time has been nowhere near good enough and he isn't good enough to manage this club...I agree but how about we cut down on the one sided arguments....if you want to use context to judge his time in his first season try not to ignore the context as to why we started losing after the Chelsea match which happened to be after the first 10 matches last season.

Bullshit.
 
Blanchflower said:
I think he's done very well to keep them in the PL at all

Brentford are really a league 1 yo yo club
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Brentford are a tiny club in commercial terms, but they are extremely well run and Frank has had a very good squad at his disposal his entire time there, and they have reinvested their PL riches as it has gone on.

In retrospect he had an unbelievable squad for the Championship level and still only secured a play-off spot two years running.

He's been there a long time and just kept on doing a solid job.

By all accounts a top character, has built and maintains a good culture, nothing bad to say about him, but there's not really that bit of magic about what he's done there either, the kind of glimpse of superstar managerial talent you're looking for.

It would not surprise me at all if he found the CL level very much beyond his abilities at Spurs.
 
Shadydan said:
Hark at you lol...the irony of calling me dense when you're struggling to understand what the debate is about...how about we take a deep breath and try to understand what we're debating before we wade in with irrelevant nonsense like you've done...again.

This is where the debate started and this is where Harrier tried to discount his first 10 matches:



As for the rest of your post which is again irrelevant to the discussion, "Ange finished 5th in the EPL" is a cast iron fact, you can conflate the 2 seasons if you so wish and you are 100% correct in saying that overall his time has been nowhere near good enough and he isn't good enough to manage this club...I agree but how about we cut down on the one sided arguments....if you want to use context to judge his time in his first season try not to ignore the context as to why we started losing after the Chelsea match which happened to be after the first 10 matches last season.

Bullshit.
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No one’s arguing it’s a cast iron fact, but to keep using it as a means to endorse going forward with the manager without applying context to that 5th place finish is foolish!

What’s hard to understand in that concept?!
 
Shadydan said:
No it doesn't, what kind of brainless analogy is that 😆 you've just gone and used another useless extreme because if that was the comparison then we'd have had to be first after 10 matches and then get relegated, behave.
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What’s wrong with that analogy?!

I’m trying to point out that him finishing 5th was heavily influenced by the initial circumstances (the new car being reliable), which failed to continue (car older and now breaking down regularly) and cannot be relied upon as what to expect moving forward!
 
WillWilliams said:
Don’t think he’s even 6ft. Big Ange my arse!!
He’d be called little ange if he stood next to me.

Mind you he’d probably be called midget Ange if he stood next to AberdeenYid AberdeenYid .
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5ft 10
But, unlike 95% of men who claim to be "about 5ft 10" he actually IS 5ft 10
I'm 5ft 9" and seem to tower over many who claim to be 5ft 10"
Lies Liar GIF
 
I do wish we had some clarity. Winning the Europa was a thrilling, unexpected, bonus after, what has been, a disastrous league campaign.

If Ange stays, can he turn our league form around? I'm fucked if I know.

If he goes, is there any guarantee that a new manager will do any better? I'm fucked if I know.

We won nothing under a parade of, commonly viewed as, 'elite' managers and won a major European trophy under a, commonly viewed on this forum as, clueless fraud. Does any of that give any sense of what might happen if Ange stays, or goes? I'm fucked if I know.

If Ange stays, he will have my support because I have supported this club for nearly 65 years through thick and thin, and always will.

If he goes, I will support the new Manager to do well because I have supported this club for nearly 65 years through thick and thin, and always will.

In short, what will happen? I'm fucked if I know.
 
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Harrier said:
What’s wrong with that analogy?!

I’m trying to point out that him finishing 5th was heavily influenced by the initial circumstances (the new car being reliable), which failed to continue (car older and now breaking down regularly) and cannot be relied upon as what to expect moving forward!
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Your analogies are horrible, please stop trying to do them, they just don't work

Once again 'heavily influenced' is an utter BS argument unless you're willing to use the same logic for every manager in the league who goes through a rich vein of form.

It's very easy to point out and ignore certain factors as to why to why certain teams hit/lose form throughout the season e.g injuries, players hitting form, referees, fixture schedule etc... you could literally do this for every other team in the league hence why we take an overall approach when it's all said and done you end up where you deserve at the end of the season.
 
Aphex said:
Yep. To some extent I can understand why someone like Levy, who is famously clueless about football, may make the mistake of giving Ange another season.

But is is unfamothable that a football person like Paratici, and even Vinai, would make the same mistake.

If they come in, and give Ange a third season, Ange will without a doubt fuck it up. We will finish midtable at best, relegated at worst, and we will crash out of the CL in embarassing fashion. I can't imagine they would want their debut season, tarred in such a way.

It will be interesting to see, because if we sack Ange, my faith in the club will be higher, I will have more optimism for our future.

If Ange is kept, I will be extremely disillusioned, even more so because it means our new football structure has signed off on it and it will mean even the new guys are clueless.

This is such an important cross roads for our club.

Sack Ange, hire the right manager, and build on last week and the CL qualification, and we can really go places.

Keep Ange, and next season will be a disaster and we will lose our chance, and fall even further behindn than we already are.

On SC it's even worse, so many absolute morons ignoring all the evidence and wanting Ange to get another season based on nothing but they like him, bending over backwards to make every excuse possible on why the season was so shit, apart from admitting it was because Ange is useless. it's insane.
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SC is a site full of brain dead numpties who believe and pay for ITK bullshit so we can ignore their thoughts.
It’s bad enough we get their forum wankstains on here trolling we can only imagine the nonsense the rest of those muppets are spouting.
 
Harrier said:
No one’s arguing it’s a cast iron fact, but to keep using it as a means to endorse going forward with the manager without applying context to that 5th place finish is foolish!

What’s hard to understand in that concept?!
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I'm sorry who has done this and what context do you need to fucking apply to a 5th place finish ffs...stop trying to argue with facts, you're being thick.
 
Shadydan said:
Once again 'heavily influenced' is an utter BS argument unless you're willing to use the same logic for every manager in the league who goes through a rich vein of form.
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You’d have a point if the rich vein of form was anything other than right at the start of his tenure. AngeBall was a new concept to the premier league and it initially caught teams out, but it turned out to be surprisingly easy to overcome.

I think it was Gary O’Neil who gave a detailed interview on the tactics that were used to nullify AngeBall and it’s a blueprint that every manager has used since.
 
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