Eric Dier

[JDM]

We've been back peddling for two and a half seasons. The last 12 months our performances and results fell off a cliff. Poch's selections have been a major part of that and he has been sacked.

I personally - and this isn't hind sight, it's on record - believe his selection of Dier in midfield was a major factor in us not being able to finish above Leicester and an inferior Woolwich in 15/16. But we're Spurs so we were all grateful just to be finishing 3rd and loving Dier because kicked some Chelsea players in the process of pissing away a 2-0 lead at Stamford Bridge.

I remember seeing stats about our centre midfield that season and it was actually when Mason or Bentaleb started that we dropped performance. Something like 2.2 points a game with Dier and Dembele, if either Mason or Bentaleb played we had a far lower average. Now, we all knew then and still know now that Dembele was the important player, but I still felt Dier was good. I am worried about Dier, I didn’t watch the Bayern match as I was at work, but I did feel he was improved and actually pretty good against a poor Burnley side. I won’t lose faith in him just yet, but an upgrade is almost certainly needed.

 

[Airfixx]

You may have done that as well, but you also made a simple statement that I disagreed with about his prior mobility and energy levels.

There was no "as well".... The sum point of my post was comparing scenario A to B.... You continue to neglect the context of my original post for your own ends.

And I stand staunchly by the fact that he was never mobile or dynamic enough, whether or not you choose to jettison some of your trumped up opinions of his footballing ability or athleticism is up to you.

I haven't brought my opinion on the player's ability into the equation tho, Blakey....

Then again Poch, Jose & Southgate all rated Dier circa 15-18..... Let the jury make of that what they will.

 

[Airfixx]

You were comparing scenario A with B, I disagreed with your assessment of scenario A.

If Poch, Southgate and Mourinho all rated Dier as a CM circa 15-18 then I disagree with them too.

But then Poch even said in his book he disagreed with Dier and saw his future as a CB. As early as 2016-17 he was picking Wanyama ahead of Dier as a CM and the jury can also consider that Mourinho also liked Marouan Fellani circa 15-18 and, lime Poch ended up getting the bullet.

So what you're saying is Dier has always been this immobile and that the last 12 months of disruption to his career via succession of illness and surgery aren't a factor.....?

I'm calling fake news.

 

[Airfixx]

Can'tplayfootballitis and fulminant afraidoftheballosis are not real diseases though. But I'm with you in that we should give him another year to recover to full fitness and perhaps see how he does next year...and then make a decision. These 6 seasons he's been with us haven't been enough to determine anything. We wouldn't wanna be hasty.

BTW I have my suspicions that he was very high on the 'painful rebuild' list. He'd already been replaced once...and that was after his 'best' season with us. That said, I'd love for him to make it with us but I think there is ample evidence that unless he's Jose's Matic or he changes position that making bit might be difficult.

Like I already said to BC; your welcome to your own theories and rating of the player....

I'm responding to an earlier, rather hollow and un-insightful claim that "4 appearances should be more than enough for him to regain fitness".

We have a new manager, he'll assess the players and in time get rid of those he feels he has no need for..... Dier isn't my dream DM, but the rush to wade in with "X or Y is shit" is all a bit puerile tbh.... Especially when pushing fake news in order to foster a platform to do so.

EDIT Talking of puerile..... Morning MindNumb! Thanks for all your kisses, you sad fuck. What was it you said? "Get a life"...? An example to us all.

 

[mikes01666]

Sigh..... We had this convo yesterday.

I could swear the sky is green.... That's not to say that view would hold any credibility would it?

It's a hollow assertion.

...after you mis-quoted me.

Well I've given my view (however meaningless and incredible it is , it is clear and unequivocal.)

What's yours (or anyone elses?) How many games to achieve match fitness. 10, 20, half a season?

 

[Airfixx]

...after you mis-quoted me.

No. This convo had already taken place yesterday; prior to my inaccurate paraphrasing in reference to it.

Well I've given my view (however meaningless and incredible it is , it is clear and unequivocal.)

What's yours (or anyone elses?) How many games to achieve match fitness. 10, 20, half a season?

I answered that yesterday, but I'll repeat for you....

Whatever timeframe one is likely to conjure will likely be similarlary hollow and un-informed and thus to levy such an expectation against the player is unfair...

Sure we all like to pick the team or scout from our armchair etc. but sometimes we just need to concede that in certain scenarios we don't have the necessary insight to form a credible opinion..... Not being experts or paid pro's, one needn't feel ashamed in that.

If you don't understand this point on 2nd airing let's just call it quits.... I've no deeper beef here.

 

[Mariner]

Every week I hope he gets a little better, a little fitter... But the injuries do seem to have taken their toll, but I still hold out hope

He was good.

Good illustration of what we used to have and what we’re missing, imagine Eriksen actually swinging in a corner that found the head of one of ours.
Them was the days

 

[Hulk]

Good illustration of what we used to have and what we’re missing, imagine Eriksen actually swinging in a corner that found the head of one of ours.
Them was the days

Watching 30 secs of that first vid is depressing and sad-he could tackle, press and wasn't a complete oil tanker-I know hes had illness and injuries but fuck me the guy cannot run any more whatsoever.

 

[TheSpurEst]

Dier and Dembele played in midfield. Dele, Kane and Eriksen in the front 3.

Aha... and Wanyama gathered his minutes as ST then?
Cause in 16-17 our CM minutes were as followed -
Dier- 3044
Wanyama - 3015
Dembele - 2065
Winks - 477
I say that in our best season our CM rank was -
1) Dembele
2) Wanyama
3) Dier
If you are 3rd best in your line, you could hardly be called "lynchpin".
You can be everpresent, but that is different dimention!

 

[Allejo10]

If you get a chance watch the piece Jenas did on match of the day 2 after our game. Tore into Dier and Sissoko, highlighted how bad they were, hiding, turning backwards when they had ground in front of them, putting others under pressure etc. Showed examples.

He also didn't make a single successful tackle or interception. It seems planting yourself in our D and making sure our bus doesn't leave the station for 90 minutes is being good defensively.

Jenas is accurate in that. Think Dier could become a good player is he's very fit, but Sissoko doesn't have a footbal brain, is so painful tô watch. Every time he gets the ball he will take the worst pass, putting other player in danger or avoiding tô run with a lot of space in front of him, he lacks completely what's needed for a midfielder. Dier as a more defensive midfield at least can pick some good passes, but he uses to be too slow and that is a major concern in a CDM roll. Also, his positionig hasn't been the best for a CDM, but he seems tô be improving.

 

[Notabadsquad]

Dier won't secure that midfield berth.

Does not think quickly enough or move the ball forward as fast as he needs to.

Ndombele can be the focal point but hmmmm.

Mourinho will be on the look out.

 

[spursmalc]

One of them is 26 the other 30,they’ve both been coached by a very proactive coach for the last 5/4 years respectively, if they are scared to turn into 10 yards of space now, I doubt Mourinho’s going to be the man to do it.

I can understand a DM being safe-ish with his passing, but at some point he does have to turn and face the game. Everyone slaughters Winks for his passing as a DM, but these two make him look like Pirlo.

It all depends on what the coach wants them to do. Clearly Poch told the GK to as much as possible play out from the back and clearly Jose tells the GK to play it long. We do not know what Poch told Dier to do but he did have a preference for maintaining procession at all costs. Jose has not had enough time to influence Dier yet but maybe, just maybe he will encourage him to turn when it is safe to do so. Some of the examples given on MOD showed him in acres of space and even though he does not possess the turning ability of Winks or Ndombele he had time to turn and make a different option.

 

[Cravenspurs]

If you get a chance watch the piece Jenas did on match of the day 2 after our game. Tore into Dier and Sissoko, highlighted how bad they were, hiding, turning backwards when they had ground in front of them, putting others under pressure etc. Showed examples.

He also didn't make a single successful tackle or interception. It seems planting yourself in our D and making sure our bus doesn't leave the station for 90 minutes is being good defensively.

Yeah, it was a great take that I am glad a lot of people got to see. He is very poor and should not be getting the time of day.

 

[Matt1882]

Sissoko got no criticism whilst playing alongside him in that double pivot, why??

The issue is since the decline of Wanyama and the sale of Dembele we no longer control the midfield, the entire universe knows this but it's not down to Dier to turn into Dembele or Ndombele or pass like Winks.

Wink's passing is enormously overrated. He's as bad, if not worse, than Dier for taking the easy option and passing back to his nearest CB. That's why he's been relegated to the bench for the most part. He offers the same passing option with less muscle. Neither of them are good enough to be a part of the spine of the team for any period of time.

Sissoko got less critisim because he did it less often than Dier and at least offered something going forward in various periods of the game.
I dunno what the hell Dier was doing in the Wolves 6 yard box. He was probably trying to pass back to Toby when he hit the post though.

 

[bus-conductor]

This is so lazy. We know he does this, this is his game!! This is a) how he plays, how he has always played for us in this position b) No doubt how he's been asked to play by the manager. Why is Dier at the heart of this critique? Why not Sissoko? Where is Sissoko? Oh, there he is, behind Dier. What are you doing there mate? It's like having a pop at Ronaldo for not defending, standing up a player etc..

He’s not asked to turn backwards when he has 10 yards of space ahead of him.

And for what it’s worth Jenas, when he did a similar piece on MOTD2, highlighted both Sissoko and Dier doing the same shit stuff.

 

[bus-conductor]

And you can't even really blame them, they simply haven't got the awareness.

I absolutely blame the manager’s that are picking them far more, and have repeatedly said so, but that doesn’t entirely absolve them for what they do out there at times.

Even if you lack technical ability and vision, there’s no excuse for actively hiding from the ball - and I mean wilfully moving to get yourself behind an opponent- which Sissoko does even more than Dier.

 

[Guido 🇺🇦]

I don't totally disagree that teeing Toby up for the long ball is in our locker. It was very prevalent for a few years, went away then seems to have come back.
I wouldn't say it's the overriding plan though. In both the Newcastle loss and Watford draw at home, it was Winks to Toby to Winks to Toby to Winks to Toby to Winks to Toby etc.
There was no midfield bypass, there was no creativeness. There was possession and not a lot else.

I would like to see us invest a proper DCM. A player who can win the ball, shield the defense, receive a pass under pressure and hold on to it and successfully pass the right pass more often than not. And follow instructions rather than go off on a tangent.

I don't really think we have that player. Perhaps TND could be the one? Is he a big tackler/shielder? He seems more attack minded to me.

We absolutely need a dynamic, press resistant, line braking DM/CM, none of what I'm saying excludes this fact. It's imperative that we do so as we can start to win the midfield battles again and gain the control back (it also requires our forwards to press more than they do for this to truly be effective, so it's not the flicking of a switch via the signing of one player). Ndombele is a baller but clearly will not be up to speed until next year, maybe there is a doubt about him without the ball, but let's get him fit first before that part of his game is more thoroughly assessed. He is 50%-60% of the puzzle but perhaps we will be too reliant on him??

The games you mention were where we had control, mainly because the oppo chose to concede it to us as part of their plan. These games I don't worry about, we should win the majority of them even though they can prove a tough watch if we fail to score an early goal. What we were lacking is a functioning 10 and AM's willing to run along with a bit more variety to what we were doing.

My focus is being able to not compete with Wolves midfield, with Southampton's midfield, or any midfield that plays with aggression. I'm worried for Sunday because Chelsea's midfield is very strong, so expect us to try and bye-pass it and play with a low block and a ball over the top.

 

[Guido 🇺🇦]

He’s not asked to turn backwards when he has 10 yards of space ahead of him.

And for what it’s worth Jenas, when he did a similar piece on MOTD2, highlighted both Sissoko and Dier doing the same shit stuff.

Which would suggest even more so that there is more than a possibility that there is an instruction being followed? We know the limitations of those two, knowing this why would anyone expect them to play like silky skilful midfielders? They aren't capable of that, they never have been.

Let's ask Rose to play like Alexander-Arnold, when he fails to do so we should all be outraged at him for failing to pull it off??

 

[Guido 🇺🇦]

Yeah that must be it. Same way Pochettino told Trippier to be shit eh..

I don't get that response.

But surely asking two non-ballers to be ballers isn't a recipe for success. It's doomed from the outset.

 

[bus-conductor]

Which would suggest even more so that there is more than a possibility that there is an instruction being followed? We know the limitations of those two, knowing this why would anyone expect them to play like silky skilful midfielders? They aren't capable of that, they never have been.

Let's ask Rose to play like Alexander-Arnold, when he fails to do so we should all be outraged at him for failing to pull it off??

You do say some silly shit sometimes. There’s a fucking chasm of difference between being “silky” and competent.

At some point we have to move the ball forwards. I’m certain Mourinho doesn’t say to Dier “when you receive the ball and have ten yards of space in front of you, pass backwards, then hide and put us under pressure”