Tottenham Vs Newcastle - Sunday 27th Sept, 2pm KO.

Still seething. Apparently, these things will balance themselves out. Feck that. Never would that decision have been given against the Dippers or Man Ure, at that stage of the game.

I saw the library picture posted of Jose with Crossed arms, what was that for and what does it mean >
 

TommyD123

Supporter
Except for the above offences, it is not an offence if the ball touches a player’s hand/arm:

  • directly from the player’s own head or body (including the foot)
  • directly from the head or body (including the foot) of another player who is close
  • if the hand/arm is close to the body and does not make the body unnaturally bigger
  • when a player falls and the hand/arm is between the body and the ground to support the body, but not extended laterally or vertically away from the body

Surely it shouldn't be a penalty then considering Carroll was extremely close. This rule was meant to be brought in to remove ambiguity, yet 'a player who is close' is an extremely ambiguous sentence. How close is close?

it’s actually the bit preceding what you quoted. The line “except for the above offences”.

It says it’s an offence when:
  • touches the ball with their hand/arm when:
    • the hand/arm has made their body unnaturally bigger
    • the hand/arm is above/beyond their shoulder level (unless the player deliberately plays the ball which then touches their hand/arm)
The above offences apply even if the ball touches a player’s hand/arm directly from the head or body (including the foot) of another player who is close

So I interpret that as not being an offence coz Dier’s hand/arm hasn’t made his body “unnaturally” bigger given the aforementioned discussion on jumping (and how you can’t do so naturally with arms at your side).

BUT key in all of this is the interpretation which means these cowards hiding behind “it’s the law” need to use their judgment. BoJo’s current cabal “running” the country have made it a sport out of “interpreting the law” so surely referees in a game of Football can.
 
The rules are interpreted or manipulated to suit certain powerful teams or to screw others.
Like the rules were manipulated to suit powerful teams like Leicester yesterday against the feeble Mancity?

I really think its just referee incompetence rather than some agenda. According to the rules its obviously not a penalty as the ball came from an opponent thats very close. The referee was just shit.
 


It's the last minute of the match and a free kick has been awarded for a non-existent foul. The ball is lofted into the area and a defender and centre forward jump for the ball. Behind the centre back, another attacker has taken out a flick knife and stabs the defender in the liver. As the centre half raises in arms in agony, the ball brushes his arm, before he falls to the ground, blood gushing from the wound.

As paramedics desperately try to save the life of the victim of this vicious attack, VAR is called upon to review the situation. You are the ref - what's your call?

Cut to Peter Walton in the studio...

"Attempted or actual murder does not fall within the remit of VAR. Therefore the referee has no alternative but to award a penalty. A posthumous red card for the unfortunate defender could be seen as excessive however."
 
At this point just kick the ball at someone’s arm in the box every single time. This is so fucking ridiculous.
This should be a very real tactic.

Why the hell not - if they're going to have this ridiculous rule, then highlighting every game and making it even more of a mockery is the only way to counter it.

If a striker like Kane actually adopted this tactic then I could easily see 3-4 penalties being given in a single match.

Just aim it at the arms every time the opposition packs the box or parks the bus.
 
This should be a very real tactic.

Why the hell not - if they're going to have this ridiculous rule, then highlighting every game and making it even more of a mockery is the only way to counter it.

If a striker like Kane actually adopted this tactic then I could easily see 3-4 penalties being given in a single match.

Just aim it at the arms every time the opposition packs the box or parks the bus.


Newcastle handled the ball twice maybe even three times.

first half after the double save coming from Lo Celso free kick

second half Ndombele.

Verdict? corruption.
 

Ginolaflair

BLEEDER OF BLUE & WHITE


It's the last minute of the match and a free kick has been awarded for a non-existent foul. The ball is lofted into the area and a defender and centre forward jump for the ball. Behind the centre back, another attacker has taken out a flick knife and stabs the defender in the liver. As the centre half raises in arms in agony, the ball brushes his arm, before he falls to the ground, blood gushing from the wound.

As paramedics desperately try to save the life of the victim of this vicious attack, VAR is called upon to review the situation. You are the ref - what's your call?

Cut to Peter Walton in the studio...

"Attempted or actual murder does not fall within the remit of VAR. Therefore the referee has no alternative but to award a penalty. A posthumous red card for the unfortunate defender could be seen as excessive however."
This is brilliant. Made me laugh out loud. Cheers for 0utting a smile on my face for the day. Sheer brilliance.
 
I just don’t understand why the rule has to be applied in this way. Surely the referee can consider the intent of the player? Penalties and free kicks are supposed to punish foul play.

All Dier did was jump with his back to the ball and the ball happened to touch his arm. Everyone who watches football can see the difference between a deliberate handball and an accidental one. Basically this new rule says that unless your arm is held close against your body, it’s now a penalty if the ball touches it. But that’s obviously not right, players cannot keep their arms low and tucked in at all times.

Last week in Europa league we got a pen because the guy slapped the ball off the line to prevent a goal. Clear handball and nobody can complain about that penalty. The Dier one is just...nothing. For me there has to be a deliberate intent to cheat and play the ball with the hand for there to be something worthy of punishment.

The Newcastle “handballs” at the other end were not worthy of a penalty either, none of them should be given. When we are talking about such short distances between the ball being played and defenders it’s insane that referees are giving penalties. They are supposed to consider the distances between ball and player. How can you get your arm out of the way if you have 3 milliseconds to do it?
 
Result aside a good solid performance against what has to be said was an average Newcastle team on the day.

I think the obvious has been written but can you imagine losing a Champions League final to that kind of decision?

At least with Sissoko, in the final last year he did have his arms out and a nanosecond to react.

It needs a rule change and quickly.
 
As much as I feel anger at the decision, somewhat it’s on the team for leaving themselves open. 1-0 should really have been 2 / 3-0 at least and to be honest there was not enough desire to bury the game in the second half. That said we played really well first half especially. I liked the performance.

in regards to the decision. It simply, under any reasonable circumstances, has to be seen as a corrupted process. The officials are looking for a problem. Not looking to verify there is no problem.

I’ll confess I am firstly confused how offside is not given, as the line looks to show a margin of offside that certainly applies to two Newcastle players, it’s tight, but maybe I am seeing something that’s not there?

But what follows is ridiculous. You cannot physically jump without your arms out. Look at the Donkey jumping for evidence. We all know Dier could not reasonably see the ball, move his arm or do anything. So without intent how can punishment be forthcoming?

Then we have to consider the timing. 94+ minutes. If you understand football. You have to be aware of circumstances when making decisions. No ref should be giving that decision based on objective reading of the game at that point in the match.

and then. After everything, the ref goes to the monitor and sees the what appears to be the most misleading angle of the incident. From what I saw he did not seem to review the incident angle by angle in real time and via video. He seemed to decide on the decision via a still frame from one camera, it was too quick a conclusion.

so ultimately, it’s a complete nonsense and comes down to a desire to do harm to the game. For reasons I cannot imagine. And that leaves me feeling that refs are simply bias or bent or both.
 
I just don’t understand why the rule has to be applied in this way. Surely the referee can consider the intent of the player? Penalties and free kicks are supposed to punish foul play.

All Dier did was jump with his back to the ball and the ball happened to touch his arm. Everyone who watches football can see the difference between a deliberate handball and an accidental one. Basically this new rule says that unless your arm is held close against your body, it’s now a penalty if the ball touches it. But that’s obviously not right, players cannot keep their arms low and tucked in at all times.

Last week in Europa league we got a pen because the guy slapped the ball off the line to prevent a goal. Clear handball and nobody can complain about that penalty. The Dier one is just...nothing. For me there has to be a deliberate intent to cheat and play the ball with the hand for there to be something worthy of punishment.

The Newcastle “handballs” at the other end were not worthy of a penalty either, none of them should be given. When we are talking about such short distances between the ball being played and defenders it’s insane that referees are giving penalties. They are supposed to consider the distances between ball and player. How can you get your arm out of the way if you have 3 milliseconds to do it?
I agree with all that, I would say however that there has always been a problem with the word "deliberate". Excluding handballs like the one in Macedonia or Luis Suárez's against Ghana in the World Cup, where the intention is obvious, the rest of the time you are essentially asking the referee to read the mind of the defender.

Secondly, as Jamie Carragher (I think) once pointed out, no player deliberately handles the ball (again, with the aforementioned exceptions or where there is blatant cheating - Hand of God etc.) for the simple reason that it's against the rules of the game. It's like saying that no player deliberately takes a double touch when taking a free kick - it happens and should be penalised, but no player would think it a cunning trick they could try out to confuse the other team.

For example, do you remember the NLD at the Death Star, when we were 2-0 down and pulled it back to win 2-3? The equaliser was a penalty converted by VDV after Fabregas or some other cunt who was in the wall at a free kick had jumped up with both hands above his head and stopped the ball flying goalwards. Was it deliberate - did Fabregas make a conscious decision to defend the free kick in that way? Probably not. Was it handball, punishable with a penalty? Quite clearly.

 
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