I promised myself not to check this forum after yesterday's events but couldn't help myself. Utterly utterly depressing to read through it all. As a man with black children it's difficult to truly convey how much trauma is caused by events such as yesterday, then when you come on here and see the mental gymnastics some will go to to maintain the status quo it's exhausting. Imagine if you could only divert that level of effort into actually being anti racist rather than risk causing upset by playing whatever game it is you think you are playing (be it playing devil's advocate, being anti communist, or something more sinister). Also, some of the arguments on here I can dispel from actual lived experience as a result of having a black partner and black children - few of you can possibly say the same, so maybe rather than battering away at your keyboard perhaps take some time out to consider if your efforts could actually be better served helping other people rather than yourself?
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Lol it's not 'woke' to not be a racist. It's normal. No-one is born a racist.
Great post. Sorry you've had to have lived experiences of racism. It's not pleasant at all (to put it very mildly!).
I experiences racist abuse throughout my school years, which culminated in massive weight loss and many trips for counselling - experienced things from playground insults to physical violence, and even in adult years, experienced episodes such as a car driving past, some cunt yelling 'fucking paki' and lobbing a beer can at my head.
Racism is abhorrent, and must be stamped upon the moment it rears its ugly head, not brushed under the carpet or swept aside via mental gymnastics etc.
Wows, even with the Euros, it’s going to be one long heavy and painful pre-season on here, especially with the extended lockdown.
For what it’s worth…
1. I completely support the England team in wanting to make a simple but visible anti racism gesture, based on what they’ve said.
2. I’m anti the BLM movement and all the rewriting of history, anger at statues etc. Meaningless and pointless.
3. There’s much work still to be done on combatting racism in sport and society in the UK.
4. Despite the above, I’m deeply uncomfortable with the wokery, tokenism and false gestures of the past year, especially from corporate and public entities, who carry on doing what they’ve always done. As someone who is mixed race, I’ve found most of it patronising and offensive by its crassness.
Not quite sure what that achieves other than giving everyone something to disagree with.
Good day and good night.
Up The Spurs.
For what it’s worth…
1. I completely support the England team in wanting to make a simple but visible anti racism gesture, based on what they’ve said.
2. I’m anti the BLM movement and all the rewriting of history, anger at statues etc. Meaningless and pointless.
3. There’s much work still to be done on combatting racism in sport and society in the UK.
4. Despite the above, I’m deeply uncomfortable with the wokery, tokenism and false gestures of the past year, especially from corporate and public entities, who carry on doing what they’ve always done. As someone who is mixed race, I’ve found most of it patronising and offensive by its crassness.
Not quite sure what that achieves other than giving everyone something to disagree with.
Good day and good night.
Up The Spurs.
It's clear recently that many have backed away from aligning with the Black Lives Movement political group due to the criticism that group receives.
To that end, the England players have come out and said that they are not supporting anything political when they continue to take the knee. They're doing it to protest 'discrimination, injustice and inequality'.
That's it. That why they are taking the knee.
If anyone wants to boo them then it has to be because you're against that reasoning. You can't bring other issues into it when they've explicitly stated their reasons.
'So TW02HEY why are you booing the England players taking the knee today?'
'Well I found out this morning that my local chippy has raised the price of their large bag by a quid. I'm not having that. BOO!'
To that end, the England players have come out and said that they are not supporting anything political when they continue to take the knee. They're doing it to protest 'discrimination, injustice and inequality'.
That's it. That why they are taking the knee.
If anyone wants to boo them then it has to be because you're against that reasoning. You can't bring other issues into it when they've explicitly stated their reasons.
'So TW02HEY why are you booing the England players taking the knee today?'
'Well I found out this morning that my local chippy has raised the price of their large bag by a quid. I'm not having that. BOO!'
Here's the thing, I know you are so wrapped up politically in this argument that nothing I, or anyone else, can say will change your opinion.
You likely think this is all overblown and everyone who disagrees with your opinion is some sort of social justice warrior just screaming racism because they want some of those virtue signalling points.
It's a matter of picking sides to you, every opinion that doesn't align with your political world view is wrong and the sad part is you can't look past that to see this for what it is and yet you accuse me of lacking the ability for deep thinking in a sarcastic manner.
I don't align with party politics, I call out good and bad when I see it and I vote for who I believe gives everyone a fair shot in life, parties that lead with empathy for other human beings, no matter what background they come from.
If that doesn't sit well with you then that's fine but that's who I am.
And when I say that Boris is the British Donald Trump I say that from a place of political neutrality, I don't care for identity politics, I think it's one big childish contest of egos.
But when you look at Boris Johnson from an unbiased lens, you see a man that is unfit for the job he currently holds for a multitude of reasons, lacking in manners and courtesy, someone who lies and cannot answer a question honestly if his life depended on it and has a history of questionable opinions and remarks towards race, that's what makes him a hypocrite.
Who does that sound like to you? Sounds like Donald Trump to me, is it hyperbolic to suggest that? Or is it just uncomfortable truth?
I don't like anybody being racially abused, Patel shouldn't have racism directed towards her, it's fucking disgusting, I don't care who is doing it, it's unacceptable.
But people being racist towards her doesn't mean she cannot also be racist towards others, to suggest so is ignorant.
Her disagreement on something which causes no harm to anybody and only exists to send a message of anti-racism speaks volumes does it not?
If you boo Prince Harry are you racist against Brits? I mean they are just a symbol of the country! If you don't like them just be quiet. Or not.
The world isn't black and white. Some people might boo due to racism, some for the specific BLM message, some because they don't want political messaging. That's why it's a bad idea to try to force a politically divided audience to espouse a divisive political view.
No one had any issues with previous racism campaigns. Why do you think this has had such a negative response?
Booing a political gesture doesn't make you a racist by default. If you actually believe that I'll be very disappointed.
The problem with your argument is you ignore why the players said they were kneeling.
They were kneeling against discrimination and inequality.
So Patel wasn't disagreeing with BLM. She was disagreeing with the players saying that they thought discrimination and inequality should be addressed.
Her tweet was totally 'gesture politics' and she was rightly called out for being a massive hypocrite.
It’s about time keyboard warriors had some repercussions!
I have had ,and still do, concerns about the connection to BLM (the organisation), but...
The kneeling takes what 10-15 seconds? It really doesnt effect me,and many players still feel there is a valid reason for doing it.Its about abuse their own team mates take,not the bloke from America
If it bothers people so much ,come back from your pre match jimmy riddle a bit later.
And booing your own players ,is never a good look.Be that England or Spurs.
disagree. Corbyn has been a radical socialist/communist his whole life and would turn this country into a communist state. That’s a fact. That’s why labour got destroyed in the last election and the conservatives (who aren’t even conserving anything) don’t have to do anything and can still watch labour destroy itself unless it sorts out its radical socialism problem. You cannot be the party of the working man when you hate the stereotypical working man.
As we’ve seen so many fucking times over the past 100 years, communism destroys countries. It keeps everyone in poverty. This is why Eastern European countries refuse to take the knee, they know exactly what it’s about and what it represents. They’ve been down that road before. BLM is Marxism. It’s goal is to destroy our culture and society, erase free speech and wrong think. The same thing with critical race theory teaching young white children that they are inheriantly evil people. It’s sick stuff. Rewriting our history and obsessing over gender and race. This is what people are booing. If you honestly think people are booing because they hate black people in 2021 then you are extremely naive and have a child’s view of the world lol. The whole political atmosphere and the extreme left wing/socialist political culture that has infesting every corporation and institution in the west including our fucking sport. Whilst western kids have been brainwashed to spend all day contemplating their gender and race, The rest of the world are producing engineers, opening coal mines and factories every day, building islands off the coast of Asia, and taking over the west as the number one superpower. Even climate change is racist now, and apparently the only way to solve it is to introduce more laws to hone in the growth and power of western countries whilst the rest of the world can continue to dump landfill into the sea.
Whilst rich footballers and the FA kneel for “equality” in the UK, which is by far the most tolerant, open, diverse, multicultural, religiously free country on the planet, in that same breath they literally take money from dictatorships enslaving people in the Middle East, ignoring LGBT rights in countries where being gay is outlawed, women’s rights are non existent, and religious minorities are killed.
this is why we are booing. We are sick and tired of being beaten with a stick by people holding empty platitudes and virtue signalling because they hate this country and it’s government, whilst completely ignoring actual horrific acts that go on in the rest of the world.
call uk racist, make loads of money off the grift, jet off to Dubai and post it on social media. Completely out of touch with ordinary, honest, tolerant working class people that simply want to watch a game of football.
No-one's asked you to take a knee to anyone, dickhead.
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Your MO on here is to inject yourself into arguments with the phrase 'this isn't black or white' or 'life is grey' or some such.
This is straight forward.
Patel, in her high ranking role in government, decided to condemn the players for taking the knee and claimed fans could boo them cos it's a free country.
She refused to condemn the racists until she wanted to score some points.
No grey. She's a hypocrite.
I know I'm supposed to remain impartial but this has got me like... wtf?!
Bazali
, you're going to have to clarify what you mean here...
Bazali
, you're going to have to clarify what you mean here...No
I've opened the thread again.
I think it's pretty obvious to most who come on here to discuss topics other than Spurs that there are clear divides and people fall into groups with those who's views align with their own. For years we've seen this tit-for-tat, goading, attempted point-scoring. The same names, cropping up in the same discussions. There are people on here who are clearly never going to get along... about anything!
Eventually, you just have to accept you aren't going to change some people's views, especially in this setting. If you feel strongly enough about these topics, I'd suggest your time is probably best spent elsewhere, fighting for what you believe in. The non-Spurs related areas of a Spurs internet forum probably isn't the most effective place for it and I don't need the hassle of moderating it. This is not why I created the site and it would be easy for me to simply close everything other than the main Spurs forum.
These are important topics though and we should be able to discuss them. Please just try and be open and accepting of another person's perspective, as long as it is being presented to you amicably. You don't have to agree.
If this, or any other thread, starts to descend into the type of "discussion" we've seen over the last few pages, I'll just close it again.
I think it's pretty obvious to most who come on here to discuss topics other than Spurs that there are clear divides and people fall into groups with those who's views align with their own. For years we've seen this tit-for-tat, goading, attempted point-scoring. The same names, cropping up in the same discussions. There are people on here who are clearly never going to get along... about anything!
Eventually, you just have to accept you aren't going to change some people's views, especially in this setting. If you feel strongly enough about these topics, I'd suggest your time is probably best spent elsewhere, fighting for what you believe in. The non-Spurs related areas of a Spurs internet forum probably isn't the most effective place for it and I don't need the hassle of moderating it. This is not why I created the site and it would be easy for me to simply close everything other than the main Spurs forum.
These are important topics though and we should be able to discuss them. Please just try and be open and accepting of another person's perspective, as long as it is being presented to you amicably. You don't have to agree.
If this, or any other thread, starts to descend into the type of "discussion" we've seen over the last few pages, I'll just close it again.
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